I’ve been researching, in Florida, to see if the Home Affordable Modification Agreement is supposed to be recorded by the lender….can you tell me if this is a requirement as I thought all modifications are supposed to be recorded?
I Vent…Don’t hold me to this…but I read somewhere…that Non-Judicial States require the Note and Mortgage recorded in county records. If that is true, I can’t say for sure as I read this. Now I live in Florida, a State that is Judicial.(Court) and the law say’s the Note does not need to be recorded, but the Mortgage is to be recorded. If I have this correct…the Mortgage is the lein…it secures the Note. As far as to why the Notes don’t have to be recorded… I’m guessing..because they are not a lein. The note is exactly what it is called, a promissory note..a promise to pay X amount of dollars as the note say’s you promise to pay if you default. The lein, the mortgage, is the house and land..this is what they want in a default, to sell after the forclosure…knowing you don’t have the money you promised to pay on the Note. And recording the lein shows other creditors checking the records that there is a lein for X-amount of dollars owing on a mortgage.
One expert on foreclosures said people should ask for proof of the original Note and Mortgage..not just the note.. as the lein always follows the Note..and if split that leaves the Note unsecured.
If a NOTE is not an UNIFORM SECURITY INSTRUMENT then it should not be able to be used to TRANSFER OUR PROPERTY FROM BANK TO BANK. That is SECURITIES fraud. The mortgage should be the only vehicle they could use to transfer property rights from bank to bank because if the MORTGAGE was SECURITIZED PROPERLY which in most cases it was not done THAT IS THE SECURITY INSTRUMENT. A PIECE OF PAPER that states a PROMISE TO PAY by a homeowner should NOT be able to be used to TRANSFER PROPERTY OWNERSHIP RIGHTS. That is a huge SCAM. It flouts our property rights, and our Constitutional rights. Because no notes were EVER recorded the BANKS should have NEVER been able to use NOTES as a SECURITY INSTRUMENT to transfer property This is how they “LOST TRACK” of OWNERSHIP. They never recorded NOTES to INTENTIONALLY hide the crimes they were committing. There is no excuse for their behavior it is Unamerican and Unconstitutional and shows they have no respect for OUR PROPERTY.
l vent
January 29, 2011 at 2:55 PM
The whole issue about NOTES being PUBLICLY RECORDED and SECURED to a MORTGAGE and a DEED in order for the MORTGAGE INDUSTRY CABAL to TOSS AROUND OUR PROPERTY as if it were GARBAGE should be brought before the U.S. SUPREME COURT. I think it is COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL and another DECEPTIVE TRICK in an INTENTIONAL ROBBERY OF THE PEOPLE’S PROPERTY and RIGHTS by the RICH. It is COMMUNIST. They are shitting all over us and the Constitution.
The produce the note defense is not about recordation, but producing the note as evidence in a foreclosure action. The point being made is that the listed party plaintiff in the action (generally the servicer) is not the lender and doesn’t have the note, the ability to produce it, or the personal knowledge of its contents and terms required to resestablish it as a lost note.
The secutizing bankers where so greedy in the process that they refused to hire enough clerks to properly process the paperwork for the MBSs or comply with terms of the trust agreements (deliver all notes, mortgages and paperwork to the depositor within 30 days of closing of the secutitized trust). They lost track of where all the paper went and there is no one that has the “personal knowledge” of the terms of the notes to truthfully affrim same in a sworn affidavit required to reestablish a lost note.
You seem to be confused about what has been the topics of discussion on this and other foresclosure defense websites.
For the most part, a lender does NOT have to RECORD the note (although some do) but must produce it in a contested judicial foreclosure action. In non-judicial foreclosure states (27 deed of trust states) they don’t even have to do that unless the homeowner responds to the Notice of Default or Notice of Trustee Sale by filing for an injuction preventing the sale.
You can save the snarky sarcasm. It really helps no one. I am not confused about anything. I DO NOT BELIEVE your CLAIM that the BANKS WERE TOO GREEDY TO DO THEIR DUE DILLIGENCE and SEND THE PARALEGALS AROUND TO SECURITIZE PROPERLY. This SO CALLED negligence by the “BANKS” is much to WIDESPREAD TO BE JUST BECA– USE OF GREED. As far as the servicers not having the so called ability to produce a note is just a part of the cover-up for Fannie/Freddie.Banks/ Sevicers are just a front to hide Fannie/Freddie who do not have the balls to admit they were a huge part of the PONZI SCHEME so they use other entities such as Banks and Mortgage Servicers to carry out the rest of the PONZI SCHEME via uh, FRAUDCLOSURES. Because SOME STATES DO NOT REQUIRE NOTES TO BE RECORDED is not A VALID ARGUMENT. SOME STATES REQUIRING NOTES BE RECORDED IS NOT ALL STATES So you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF. THEREFORE IF A NOTE IS NOT a SECURITY INSTRUMENT , THEN A NOTE IS A FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT therefore_ A NOTE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE — USED TO TRANSFER INTEREST IN PROPERTY FROM BANK TO BANK IF IT IS NOT A SECURITY INSTRUMENT._ AN UNRECORDED THEREFORE ,UNSECURED NOTE is a MEANININGLESS PIECE OF PAPER because IT PROVES NOTHING. THAT IS ALSO FRAUD. I think you are the one who might be uh, CONF– USED. You are clearly TRYING to convince me that if BANKS DO THINGS WRONG IT IS NOT FRAUD or A VIOLATION OF OUR CONTSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS. HOW UNAMERICAN OF YOU.
Uh, EXC– USE ME you do not seem to GET the FACT that RECORDATION LAW IS THE WHOLE ISSUE. That is why there is FORECLOSUREGATE, DUH. FRAUDCLOSURES ARE THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE ORIGINATION /SECURITIES FRAUD WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON NOTHING WAS RECORDED OR SECURED PROPERLY BY THE BANKS. Lack of due dilligence by the banks in recording was to cover-up what THEY WERE HIDING at the Origination of the Mortgages. I have a paid for house thank you very much and a paid deed to prove it with a pay-off letter from a second bank that paid off my ORIGINAL mortgage which was never even assigned to the deed anyways. Strangely enough the banks continued to pass around my paid off house from bank to bank and even put my house in MERS after the mortgage pay off and gave me an ALL NEW PIN NUMBER but again never ASSIGNED a note or a mortgage to my PAID OFF DEED. Now what do you suppose gave them the right to FLOUT MY PROPERTY RIGHTS in that way? I never signed a contract with a second bank. One does not need a Harvard MBA to see that fraud occured here. That is just a small part of the FRAUD that I uncovered in my investigation.
As far as recording Notes…it depends what State you live in. Florida… recording Notes is NOT required. But some States you MUST record them. Remember, here in America..NOTHING is consistent. Laws stop at the State line and new laws begin a foot over that State line. Isn’t it fun living in America.??? Is anyone confused yet?? The only thing common and consistent in this country is the Ponzi scheme that reeks with fraud….and other matters of non-transparency.
Thank You Marilyn. You are right about the many deceptions in order for them to cover-up the truth and confuse everybody. I was not aware that recording of notes varied State by State. In my State they MUST record them. Bottom line, the people who work down at my County Recorders Office told me THEY screwed up badly and my house is PAID FOR. They NEVER ASSIGNED a mortgage debt to my deed in 19 years and the Statute of Limitations of 12 years in my State has run out on them. She told me that I can live in it, sell it, or do whatever I want with it.As you said the recording of the notes is relevant in some states.
The HAMP program is EXACTLY what landed us where I am now: on the verge of eviction after losing an Unlawful Detainer case filed against us that the Bank (US Bank NA) is the plaintiff, but they have “no knowledge of the lawsuit”, nor do they have interest in our property. We were not behind on any payments in our HELOC loan (before which we owned our home outright/free and clear/paid in full), but wanted to take advantage of this program that our Government announced would “help” homeowners to lower their payments and avoid the possibility of foreclosure. It was just a “trap door” from which we have yet to recover! We lost our case, and are on our way to the appellate level. Who knows how this will turn out. As I said in my “Foreclosure Hamlet” short blog: “Flip a coin: Heads, the Bank wins/Tails, the homeowner loses”. I am all for doing away with this dangerous “lure” of a program! ~Millie~
Will they never understand that they way out of this housing crisis is to stabilize values by keep people in their homes. Foreclosure is not only is devastating to the individual, it also destroys communities, reduces state revenues via property taxes. It also prevents that family for purchasing another home for a minimum of 3 to 4 years based on the adverse affect of their credit standing. So simple math will tell you that your rediucing the home buying public by the number of homes foreclosed. Add that to the jobless rate and how do they expect any sort of housing recovery??? They’re attempts with the Making Home Affordable refinance program is also a failure. The fees are outrageous, and the limitation on loan to value has not kept pace with the continued declining values.
The next issue is the the securitization/mers/improper assignment mess. If there were less foreclosures, there would be less litigation as well as an honest opportunity to fix that. Again, if they added some juice to the legislation to hold servicers accountable, and tackled the financial road blocks put up by investors, rather than calling it a failure, we would have a chance to stabilize the market. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ILL THOUGHT, ILL RESEARCHED LEGISLATION. I wonder when we’ll ever be able to say we’re proud of what happens in Washington?
The mortgage debt does not or ever did exist. No notes were recorded, assignments were not made to properly perfect a collateral lien because no lien existed. They need COLLATERAL not encumbered land. That is why this is being called FORECLOSUREGATE. All fraudclosures must be stopped by Washington so the people can regain their STOLEN WEALTH and STOLEN HOMES.
How about thisconflict in interest in florida courts, the courts in florida depend on the money from foreclosures to stay open. would you say a BIG reason for them to keep the foreclosure process going?
@Donna….what you say is true about keeping people in their homes, stabilizing values, holding accountable the guys on top etc., however, truth and fairness and rightfulness is not part of the equation. Nor is helping we (the little guy) to get a break. In fact, they want quite the opposite, they wish to break us and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
How could they not break us (unless we have a civil commotion, rise up against these tyranny and slay the btards of thats what it takes) since the rules and law only apply to us. If you or I did half of what the bankers et al are accused of we should be cooling our heels at this moment in the Federal Penitentiary.
How can it not drive you mad that the government (note I did not say OUR government because it isn’t any more) keeps changing the rules. If something is found that would be helpful to us and give us cause to hope, it is purposely buried beneath a pile of rubble of lies.
We can say all we want “but, what about ….”. It will do us no more good than it does the hapless bloke on his way to the executioner’s chamber who says “but I’m innocent”.
Doesn’t matter. He/we are not one of the Players. Until you accept the fact that our government is one of those who violate and trample and ignore the constitution you aren’t really playing with a full deck.
Anne
January 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM
WE ARE ONLY ENTITLED TO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS WE ARE ENTITLED TO. Do you recall ever in your life, in grade school perhaps back in the old days, reading in your history book about a fair tyrant?
WE are behaving illogically if we expect the Tyrants who control our corner of the world to play fair or give a damn about us.
The problem is, we are not up to speed in assessing the situation. We still feel a righteous outrage at the flagrant violations of laws which results in our loss of our apple pie home.
But as illustrated above, the only laws which apply are now the laws the tyrant says apply and, GUESS WHAT, WE LOSE.
In MA they only record the mortgage at the registry of Deeds and not the note….therefore, where does a “note” get recorded?
I had a New Century Mortgage in my wife and my name which somehow landed at Citi when NC went bankrupt.
Citi claims only my name is on the “mortgage” and they have screwed us for 16 months, finally denying us HAMP after I went back to work.
My guess is they do not have the NOTE because they told me they aren’t foreclosing but would like to offer me a deed in Lieu now that I told them to stick their outrageous “supplemental modifcation” offer up their butts.
Sounds mighty suspicious of someone trying to now get a signed piece of paper which they do not currently poses.
They are supposed to record the note at your county recorder of deeds office. Strict recordation laws require them to record. The deed, then assignment of mortgage and note and then the mortgage and note must be recorded in order to secure the deed to the mortgage and note.. Recording numbers must match to secure this process as well They did not record notes anywhere but the only place the law requires them to record the note and mortgage is at the County Recorder of Deeds office which makes everything legal and secure. No notes were ever recorded for the reason that no mortgage debt ever existed. The banks sold us our property for a nominal fee of $10. and our mortgage for a nominal fee as well so they could take OUR PAID OFF COLLATERAL up on Wall Street and participate in the Ponzi Scheme and create trillions of dollars for themselves and their friends. The Banksters made a “Secret Deal” with the homeowner’s. There are no loan mods because our homes are paid for by us via this secret deal and the banks would be committing fraud if they falsely created a mortgage debt out ot thin air. Deed in Lieu is a sneaky way for them to steal your home by tricking you into signing away your property and creating a new chain of title for themselves..Someone is acting very greedy and I do not think it is the banks. Could the banks be anymore blatant about the fraud yet no one in our own Government is doing anything to stop them. I think the Banks are being forced to behave badly by someone. Check out the article on this website about banks walking away from property in Chicago and leaving it abandoned. Why? Because they don’t own it. This is why this scandal is called Fraudclosuregate. The result of the biggest Ponzi Scheme in history in an aftermath of fraudclosures and house stealing.
ForensicMortgageExaminers
January 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM
Sorry, Ivent, but you are wrong, NOTES never get recorded. Search your local land records… deeds of all sorts, assignments, quit claim deeds, probabte deeds, ALL those are recorded,
NOTES? Never. There are NO LAWS requiring recordation of notes.
They are never recorded. Not before this mess ever happened, not during the -get that signature on a fraudulent “loan” any damn way you can- years and not now.
l vent
January 29, 2011 at 12:35 AM
Then why are notes listed as one of the criteria you may use to search for in a recording search along with deeds, assigments, mortgages, lis pens,etc.? Why even list notes at the RECORDER OF DEEDS OFFICE if they are not required to record and assign them. What use are they to anybody? They are just an unsecured piece of paper that almost anyone could create to say that you owe them money. Can you tell me what a note is for if it does not need to be recorded to prove it is AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT? Then where is the PROOF who the promise to pay the debt is owed to? What ties a note to a deed? Why should the Banks have to produce a note in Court in order to prove they own the mortgage? If A NOTE is just a BOGUS DOCUMENT that proves nothing then any bank should be thrown out of court trying to steal someones home with AN UNSECURED, UNRECORDED, UNOFFICIAL DOCUMENT. Someone needs to stop the charades. They are being allowed to FLOUT PEOPLE’S PROPERTY RIGHTS AND STEAL PEOPLE’S HOMES WITH NO VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTATION. Nothing was publicly recorded properly to secure
the deed to the banks. My County Recorder’s Office Lawyer told me THIS IS TRUE and because of this my house is PAID FOR. I can live in it, sell it or do whatever I want with it. Another different County Recorder’s Office in a different County told me that there are VERY STRICT RECORDING LAWS THAT THE BANKS MUST FOLLOW AND THEY DID NOT FOLLOW THOSE LAWS. If the NOTE is NO BIG DEAL as you say, then why are so many lawyers winning cases in favor of the HOMEOWNER using the PRODUCE THE NOTE defense? Someone is not being honest here and I do not think an ATTORNEY at my COUNTY RECORDER’S OFFICE is lying to me.
l vent
January 29, 2011 at 1:57 AM
What was the wheresthenote? campaign all about? Why did Marcy Kaptor the Dem. Congresswoman from Ohio make a big deal about the NOTES and tell people not to leave their homes if they are fraudclosed on because they do not have the NOTES up there on Wall Street. Can a lawyer explain exactly what these banks are required by law to record and what the proper public recordation process is? We seem to have conflicting information here about this.
I don’t know what State you live in…but in Florida the law does not require the Note to be recorded…just the Mortgage. That may be where people are getting confused when you speak of the Note and the Mortgage being recorded. In some States the Note must be recorded.
HAMP was written in collusion to with politicians to protect bankers as window dressing to proffer a fraudulent public relations image. This also allowed them to buy time to cook their books even more with false financials to prop their stock prices.
Let the Loan Modification Tsunami begin.
Lenders cannot Perfect their Security Interest and the only plausible method is to acquire new wet ink signatures on modified mortgage notes and properly recorded new security deeds.
Do you think that is true? Cooking the books is not going to cover up the Origination fraud. They can’t go back and re-originate a debt at every homeowner’s county recorder’s office. If the banks give a loan mod they will have to create a debt out of thin air that never existed and that would be more fraud. Our homes are paid for free and clear by us because the banks struck a “secret deal” with homeowner’s that only the banksters knew about. They tried to cover up my loan origination fraud by assigning me a new pin number to hide the Origination fraud. A second banker came along (F/K/A) and charged homeowner’s a nominal fee for their mortgage debt and the originator of the loan charged us a nominal fee for our property(deeds). The property had to be free of encumberances in order for the Banks and Wall Street to participate in the biggest Ponzi Scheme in history. They used our paid off collateral to create wealth for themselves and their upper echelon friends and stole anything else not nailed down like 401k’s and other investments by all of us down here on Mainstreet.. Now we all would like to know where the hell is all of that? Now someone is just being really stinking greedy by house stealing via fraudclosure or deed-in-lieu or imposing a FALSE MORTGAGE DEBT BURDEN via a loan mod. No notes were EVER recorded because no MORTGAGE DEBT EVER EXISTED, OUR HOMES ARE PAID FOR FREE AND CLEAR by us via a bank/mortgage lender. In my case, Thank you very much, Chase.
Any support you’d like from this life-long Democrat to show that HAMP is arguably the most destructive anti-consumer legislation ever passed is yours; just write.
An incredible number of people have been lured into “trial modifications” under false pretenses only to have anywhere from 3-18 months go by and then be told they have to pay much (much, much) more than they would have had they never been entered into the program. Amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars are not uncommon as savings and retirement funds are gutted for a program people never asked for.
These are modifications people did not want. Their bank — or at least the entity they thought was their bank — calls unsolicited and asks if they’d like a lower interest rate on their never-paid-late mortgage. The bank doesn’t tell them that the bank receives a large taxpayer provided subsidy for enrolling them in the program, that there is a strong chance they’d be rejected and have to come up with a large sum of cash to avoid foreclosure, nor that if they did not pay the extortion demand at the end they’d be quickly foreclosed on and forced to pay even more to keep their house.
The next logical step would be to level the playing field between lenders and borrowers by pulling out all subsidies, direct or indirect, for lenders (they’re not really lenders; just bill collectors for the real lenders who have no say in the matter but since people confuse them enough I’m using that term). Some might argue that after $14 trillion in subsidies to one side of a private contract some money should flow to the other but forget it; at this point please — please — just make the banks stand on their own feet; stop forcing us (and our kids, and their kids .. and a few more generations) to subsidize irresponsible, reckless bankers who made bad business decisions then convinced a bi-partisan batch of cronies they were “too big to fail” .. but that the US middle-class isn’t.
I’ve been researching, in Florida, to see if the Home Affordable Modification Agreement is supposed to be recorded by the lender….can you tell me if this is a requirement as I thought all modifications are supposed to be recorded?
“STRICT recordation laws require them to record.”
Lol, good one, now what’s the punch line???
I Vent…Don’t hold me to this…but I read somewhere…that Non-Judicial States require the Note and Mortgage recorded in county records. If that is true, I can’t say for sure as I read this. Now I live in Florida, a State that is Judicial.(Court) and the law say’s the Note does not need to be recorded, but the Mortgage is to be recorded. If I have this correct…the Mortgage is the lein…it secures the Note. As far as to why the Notes don’t have to be recorded… I’m guessing..because they are not a lein. The note is exactly what it is called, a promissory note..a promise to pay X amount of dollars as the note say’s you promise to pay if you default. The lein, the mortgage, is the house and land..this is what they want in a default, to sell after the forclosure…knowing you don’t have the money you promised to pay on the Note. And recording the lein shows other creditors checking the records that there is a lein for X-amount of dollars owing on a mortgage.
One expert on foreclosures said people should ask for proof of the original Note and Mortgage..not just the note.. as the lein always follows the Note..and if split that leaves the Note unsecured.
If a NOTE is not an UNIFORM SECURITY INSTRUMENT then it should not be able to be used to TRANSFER OUR PROPERTY FROM BANK TO BANK. That is SECURITIES fraud. The mortgage should be the only vehicle they could use to transfer property rights from bank to bank because if the MORTGAGE was SECURITIZED PROPERLY which in most cases it was not done THAT IS THE SECURITY INSTRUMENT. A PIECE OF PAPER that states a PROMISE TO PAY by a homeowner should NOT be able to be used to TRANSFER PROPERTY OWNERSHIP RIGHTS. That is a huge SCAM. It flouts our property rights, and our Constitutional rights. Because no notes were EVER recorded the BANKS should have NEVER been able to use NOTES as a SECURITY INSTRUMENT to transfer property This is how they “LOST TRACK” of OWNERSHIP. They never recorded NOTES to INTENTIONALLY hide the crimes they were committing. There is no excuse for their behavior it is Unamerican and Unconstitutional and shows they have no respect for OUR PROPERTY.
The whole issue about NOTES being PUBLICLY RECORDED and SECURED to a MORTGAGE and a DEED in order for the MORTGAGE INDUSTRY CABAL to TOSS AROUND OUR PROPERTY as if it were GARBAGE should be brought before the U.S. SUPREME COURT. I think it is COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL and another DECEPTIVE TRICK in an INTENTIONAL ROBBERY OF THE PEOPLE’S PROPERTY and RIGHTS by the RICH. It is COMMUNIST. They are shitting all over us and the Constitution.
Ivent:
The produce the note defense is not about recordation, but producing the note as evidence in a foreclosure action. The point being made is that the listed party plaintiff in the action (generally the servicer) is not the lender and doesn’t have the note, the ability to produce it, or the personal knowledge of its contents and terms required to resestablish it as a lost note.
The secutizing bankers where so greedy in the process that they refused to hire enough clerks to properly process the paperwork for the MBSs or comply with terms of the trust agreements (deliver all notes, mortgages and paperwork to the depositor within 30 days of closing of the secutitized trust). They lost track of where all the paper went and there is no one that has the “personal knowledge” of the terms of the notes to truthfully affrim same in a sworn affidavit required to reestablish a lost note.
You seem to be confused about what has been the topics of discussion on this and other foresclosure defense websites.
For the most part, a lender does NOT have to RECORD the note (although some do) but must produce it in a contested judicial foreclosure action. In non-judicial foreclosure states (27 deed of trust states) they don’t even have to do that unless the homeowner responds to the Notice of Default or Notice of Trustee Sale by filing for an injuction preventing the sale.
GOT IT?
You can save the snarky sarcasm. It really helps no one. I am not confused about anything. I DO NOT BELIEVE your CLAIM that the BANKS WERE TOO GREEDY TO DO THEIR DUE DILLIGENCE and SEND THE PARALEGALS AROUND TO SECURITIZE PROPERLY. This SO CALLED negligence by the “BANKS” is much to WIDESPREAD TO BE JUST BECA– USE OF GREED. As far as the servicers not having the so called ability to produce a note is just a part of the cover-up for Fannie/Freddie.Banks/ Sevicers are just a front to hide Fannie/Freddie who do not have the balls to admit they were a huge part of the PONZI SCHEME so they use other entities such as Banks and Mortgage Servicers to carry out the rest of the PONZI SCHEME via uh, FRAUDCLOSURES. Because SOME STATES DO NOT REQUIRE NOTES TO BE RECORDED is not A VALID ARGUMENT. SOME STATES REQUIRING NOTES BE RECORDED IS NOT ALL STATES So you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF. THEREFORE IF A NOTE IS NOT a SECURITY INSTRUMENT , THEN A NOTE IS A FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT therefore_ A NOTE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE — USED TO TRANSFER INTEREST IN PROPERTY FROM BANK TO BANK IF IT IS NOT A SECURITY INSTRUMENT._ AN UNRECORDED THEREFORE ,UNSECURED NOTE is a MEANININGLESS PIECE OF PAPER because IT PROVES NOTHING. THAT IS ALSO FRAUD. I think you are the one who might be uh, CONF– USED. You are clearly TRYING to convince me that if BANKS DO THINGS WRONG IT IS NOT FRAUD or A VIOLATION OF OUR CONTSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS. HOW UNAMERICAN OF YOU.
Uh, EXC– USE ME you do not seem to GET the FACT that RECORDATION LAW IS THE WHOLE ISSUE. That is why there is FORECLOSUREGATE, DUH. FRAUDCLOSURES ARE THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE ORIGINATION /SECURITIES FRAUD WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON NOTHING WAS RECORDED OR SECURED PROPERLY BY THE BANKS. Lack of due dilligence by the banks in recording was to cover-up what THEY WERE HIDING at the Origination of the Mortgages. I have a paid for house thank you very much and a paid deed to prove it with a pay-off letter from a second bank that paid off my ORIGINAL mortgage which was never even assigned to the deed anyways. Strangely enough the banks continued to pass around my paid off house from bank to bank and even put my house in MERS after the mortgage pay off and gave me an ALL NEW PIN NUMBER but again never ASSIGNED a note or a mortgage to my PAID OFF DEED. Now what do you suppose gave them the right to FLOUT MY PROPERTY RIGHTS in that way? I never signed a contract with a second bank. One does not need a Harvard MBA to see that fraud occured here. That is just a small part of the FRAUD that I uncovered in my investigation.
As far as recording Notes…it depends what State you live in. Florida… recording Notes is NOT required. But some States you MUST record them. Remember, here in America..NOTHING is consistent. Laws stop at the State line and new laws begin a foot over that State line. Isn’t it fun living in America.??? Is anyone confused yet?? The only thing common and consistent in this country is the Ponzi scheme that reeks with fraud….and other matters of non-transparency.
Thank You Marilyn. You are right about the many deceptions in order for them to cover-up the truth and confuse everybody. I was not aware that recording of notes varied State by State. In my State they MUST record them. Bottom line, the people who work down at my County Recorders Office told me THEY screwed up badly and my house is PAID FOR. They NEVER ASSIGNED a mortgage debt to my deed in 19 years and the Statute of Limitations of 12 years in my State has run out on them. She told me that I can live in it, sell it, or do whatever I want with it.As you said the recording of the notes is relevant in some states.
This could be very good but only if it was replace with something with teeth to force the Banks to cooperate
The HAMP program is EXACTLY what landed us where I am now: on the verge of eviction after losing an Unlawful Detainer case filed against us that the Bank (US Bank NA) is the plaintiff, but they have “no knowledge of the lawsuit”, nor do they have interest in our property. We were not behind on any payments in our HELOC loan (before which we owned our home outright/free and clear/paid in full), but wanted to take advantage of this program that our Government announced would “help” homeowners to lower their payments and avoid the possibility of foreclosure. It was just a “trap door” from which we have yet to recover! We lost our case, and are on our way to the appellate level. Who knows how this will turn out. As I said in my “Foreclosure Hamlet” short blog: “Flip a coin: Heads, the Bank wins/Tails, the homeowner loses”. I am all for doing away with this dangerous “lure” of a program! ~Millie~
the last assignment filed with the county is from wells fargo on my closing. my loan was sold whoo owns it???????
Will they never understand that they way out of this housing crisis is to stabilize values by keep people in their homes. Foreclosure is not only is devastating to the individual, it also destroys communities, reduces state revenues via property taxes. It also prevents that family for purchasing another home for a minimum of 3 to 4 years based on the adverse affect of their credit standing. So simple math will tell you that your rediucing the home buying public by the number of homes foreclosed. Add that to the jobless rate and how do they expect any sort of housing recovery??? They’re attempts with the Making Home Affordable refinance program is also a failure. The fees are outrageous, and the limitation on loan to value has not kept pace with the continued declining values.
The next issue is the the securitization/mers/improper assignment mess. If there were less foreclosures, there would be less litigation as well as an honest opportunity to fix that. Again, if they added some juice to the legislation to hold servicers accountable, and tackled the financial road blocks put up by investors, rather than calling it a failure, we would have a chance to stabilize the market. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ILL THOUGHT, ILL RESEARCHED LEGISLATION. I wonder when we’ll ever be able to say we’re proud of what happens in Washington?
The mortgage debt does not or ever did exist. No notes were recorded, assignments were not made to properly perfect a collateral lien because no lien existed. They need COLLATERAL not encumbered land. That is why this is being called FORECLOSUREGATE. All fraudclosures must be stopped by Washington so the people can regain their STOLEN WEALTH and STOLEN HOMES.
How about thisconflict in interest in florida courts, the courts in florida depend on the money from foreclosures to stay open. would you say a BIG reason for them to keep the foreclosure process going?
@Donna….what you say is true about keeping people in their homes, stabilizing values, holding accountable the guys on top etc., however, truth and fairness and rightfulness is not part of the equation. Nor is helping we (the little guy) to get a break. In fact, they want quite the opposite, they wish to break us and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
How could they not break us (unless we have a civil commotion, rise up against these tyranny and slay the btards of thats what it takes) since the rules and law only apply to us. If you or I did half of what the bankers et al are accused of we should be cooling our heels at this moment in the Federal Penitentiary.
How can it not drive you mad that the government (note I did not say OUR government because it isn’t any more) keeps changing the rules. If something is found that would be helpful to us and give us cause to hope, it is purposely buried beneath a pile of rubble of lies.
We can say all we want “but, what about ….”. It will do us no more good than it does the hapless bloke on his way to the executioner’s chamber who says “but I’m innocent”.
Doesn’t matter. He/we are not one of the Players. Until you accept the fact that our government is one of those who violate and trample and ignore the constitution you aren’t really playing with a full deck.
WE ARE ONLY ENTITLED TO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS WE ARE ENTITLED TO. Do you recall ever in your life, in grade school perhaps back in the old days, reading in your history book about a fair tyrant?
WE are behaving illogically if we expect the Tyrants who control our corner of the world to play fair or give a damn about us.
The problem is, we are not up to speed in assessing the situation. We still feel a righteous outrage at the flagrant violations of laws which results in our loss of our apple pie home.
But as illustrated above, the only laws which apply are now the laws the tyrant says apply and, GUESS WHAT, WE LOSE.
IVENT…I have a question.
In MA they only record the mortgage at the registry of Deeds and not the note….therefore, where does a “note” get recorded?
I had a New Century Mortgage in my wife and my name which somehow landed at Citi when NC went bankrupt.
Citi claims only my name is on the “mortgage” and they have screwed us for 16 months, finally denying us HAMP after I went back to work.
My guess is they do not have the NOTE because they told me they aren’t foreclosing but would like to offer me a deed in Lieu now that I told them to stick their outrageous “supplemental modifcation” offer up their butts.
Sounds mighty suspicious of someone trying to now get a signed piece of paper which they do not currently poses.
Thoughts?
They are supposed to record the note at your county recorder of deeds office. Strict recordation laws require them to record. The deed, then assignment of mortgage and note and then the mortgage and note must be recorded in order to secure the deed to the mortgage and note.. Recording numbers must match to secure this process as well They did not record notes anywhere but the only place the law requires them to record the note and mortgage is at the County Recorder of Deeds office which makes everything legal and secure. No notes were ever recorded for the reason that no mortgage debt ever existed. The banks sold us our property for a nominal fee of $10. and our mortgage for a nominal fee as well so they could take OUR PAID OFF COLLATERAL up on Wall Street and participate in the Ponzi Scheme and create trillions of dollars for themselves and their friends. The Banksters made a “Secret Deal” with the homeowner’s. There are no loan mods because our homes are paid for by us via this secret deal and the banks would be committing fraud if they falsely created a mortgage debt out ot thin air. Deed in Lieu is a sneaky way for them to steal your home by tricking you into signing away your property and creating a new chain of title for themselves..Someone is acting very greedy and I do not think it is the banks. Could the banks be anymore blatant about the fraud yet no one in our own Government is doing anything to stop them. I think the Banks are being forced to behave badly by someone. Check out the article on this website about banks walking away from property in Chicago and leaving it abandoned. Why? Because they don’t own it. This is why this scandal is called Fraudclosuregate. The result of the biggest Ponzi Scheme in history in an aftermath of fraudclosures and house stealing.
Sorry, Ivent, but you are wrong, NOTES never get recorded. Search your local land records… deeds of all sorts, assignments, quit claim deeds, probabte deeds, ALL those are recorded,
NOTES? Never. There are NO LAWS requiring recordation of notes.
They are never recorded. Not before this mess ever happened, not during the -get that signature on a fraudulent “loan” any damn way you can- years and not now.
Then why are notes listed as one of the criteria you may use to search for in a recording search along with deeds, assigments, mortgages, lis pens,etc.? Why even list notes at the RECORDER OF DEEDS OFFICE if they are not required to record and assign them. What use are they to anybody? They are just an unsecured piece of paper that almost anyone could create to say that you owe them money. Can you tell me what a note is for if it does not need to be recorded to prove it is AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT? Then where is the PROOF who the promise to pay the debt is owed to? What ties a note to a deed? Why should the Banks have to produce a note in Court in order to prove they own the mortgage? If A NOTE is just a BOGUS DOCUMENT that proves nothing then any bank should be thrown out of court trying to steal someones home with AN UNSECURED, UNRECORDED, UNOFFICIAL DOCUMENT. Someone needs to stop the charades. They are being allowed to FLOUT PEOPLE’S PROPERTY RIGHTS AND STEAL PEOPLE’S HOMES WITH NO VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTATION. Nothing was publicly recorded properly to secure
the deed to the banks. My County Recorder’s Office Lawyer told me THIS IS TRUE and because of this my house is PAID FOR. I can live in it, sell it or do whatever I want with it. Another different County Recorder’s Office in a different County told me that there are VERY STRICT RECORDING LAWS THAT THE BANKS MUST FOLLOW AND THEY DID NOT FOLLOW THOSE LAWS. If the NOTE is NO BIG DEAL as you say, then why are so many lawyers winning cases in favor of the HOMEOWNER using the PRODUCE THE NOTE defense? Someone is not being honest here and I do not think an ATTORNEY at my COUNTY RECORDER’S OFFICE is lying to me.
What was the wheresthenote? campaign all about? Why did Marcy Kaptor the Dem. Congresswoman from Ohio make a big deal about the NOTES and tell people not to leave their homes if they are fraudclosed on because they do not have the NOTES up there on Wall Street. Can a lawyer explain exactly what these banks are required by law to record and what the proper public recordation process is? We seem to have conflicting information here about this.
I don’t know what State you live in…but in Florida the law does not require the Note to be recorded…just the Mortgage. That may be where people are getting confused when you speak of the Note and the Mortgage being recorded. In some States the Note must be recorded.
Excellent.
HAMP was written in collusion to with politicians to protect bankers as window dressing to proffer a fraudulent public relations image. This also allowed them to buy time to cook their books even more with false financials to prop their stock prices.
Let the Loan Modification Tsunami begin.
Lenders cannot Perfect their Security Interest and the only plausible method is to acquire new wet ink signatures on modified mortgage notes and properly recorded new security deeds.
I say Celebrate; Celebrate “Dance to the Music”!
Do you think that is true? Cooking the books is not going to cover up the Origination fraud. They can’t go back and re-originate a debt at every homeowner’s county recorder’s office. If the banks give a loan mod they will have to create a debt out of thin air that never existed and that would be more fraud. Our homes are paid for free and clear by us because the banks struck a “secret deal” with homeowner’s that only the banksters knew about. They tried to cover up my loan origination fraud by assigning me a new pin number to hide the Origination fraud. A second banker came along (F/K/A) and charged homeowner’s a nominal fee for their mortgage debt and the originator of the loan charged us a nominal fee for our property(deeds). The property had to be free of encumberances in order for the Banks and Wall Street to participate in the biggest Ponzi Scheme in history. They used our paid off collateral to create wealth for themselves and their upper echelon friends and stole anything else not nailed down like 401k’s and other investments by all of us down here on Mainstreet.. Now we all would like to know where the hell is all of that? Now someone is just being really stinking greedy by house stealing via fraudclosure or deed-in-lieu or imposing a FALSE MORTGAGE DEBT BURDEN via a loan mod. No notes were EVER recorded because no MORTGAGE DEBT EVER EXISTED, OUR HOMES ARE PAID FOR FREE AND CLEAR by us via a bank/mortgage lender. In my case, Thank you very much, Chase.
Rep Jordan, Issa, and McHenry,
Any support you’d like from this life-long Democrat to show that HAMP is arguably the most destructive anti-consumer legislation ever passed is yours; just write.
An incredible number of people have been lured into “trial modifications” under false pretenses only to have anywhere from 3-18 months go by and then be told they have to pay much (much, much) more than they would have had they never been entered into the program. Amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars are not uncommon as savings and retirement funds are gutted for a program people never asked for.
These are modifications people did not want. Their bank — or at least the entity they thought was their bank — calls unsolicited and asks if they’d like a lower interest rate on their never-paid-late mortgage. The bank doesn’t tell them that the bank receives a large taxpayer provided subsidy for enrolling them in the program, that there is a strong chance they’d be rejected and have to come up with a large sum of cash to avoid foreclosure, nor that if they did not pay the extortion demand at the end they’d be quickly foreclosed on and forced to pay even more to keep their house.
The next logical step would be to level the playing field between lenders and borrowers by pulling out all subsidies, direct or indirect, for lenders (they’re not really lenders; just bill collectors for the real lenders who have no say in the matter but since people confuse them enough I’m using that term). Some might argue that after $14 trillion in subsidies to one side of a private contract some money should flow to the other but forget it; at this point please — please — just make the banks stand on their own feet; stop forcing us (and our kids, and their kids .. and a few more generations) to subsidize irresponsible, reckless bankers who made bad business decisions then convinced a bi-partisan batch of cronies they were “too big to fail” .. but that the US middle-class isn’t.
Michael Olenick
olenick -at- legalprise.com
You make a lot of sense — unusual on this issue at this time in history.
The banks could only modify a mortgage loan that maybe actually existed. NO NOTE RECORDED MEANS NO DEBT EVER EXISTED.