From the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta…
The seductive but flawed logic of principal reduction
The idea that a program to reduce principal balances on mortgage loans will cure the nation’s housing ills at little or no cost has been kicking around since the very early stages of the foreclosure crisis and refuses to die. If news stories are true, the administration, in conjunction with the state attorneys general, will soon announce that lenders have agreed to write down borrower principal balances by a grand total of $20–$25 billion as part of a deal to address serious procedural problems in foreclosure filings. Policy wonks and housing experts will greet this announcement with glee, saying that policymakers have ignored principal reduction for too long but have seen the light and are finally going to cure the epidemic of foreclosures that has gripped the country since 2007. Are the wonks right? In short: we think not.
Why do so many wonks love principal reduction? Because they think principal reduction prevents foreclosures at no cost to anyone—not taxpayers, not banks, not shareholders, not borrowers. It is the quintessential win-win or even win-win-win solution. The logic of principal reduction is that in a foreclosure, a lender recovers at most the value of the house in question and typically far less. This is because of the protracted foreclosure process during which the house deteriorates and the lender collects no interest but has to pay lawyers and other staff to navigate 50 different byzantine state bureaucracies to get a clean title to the house, which it then has to sell in an extremely weak market. In contrast, reducing the principal balance to equal the value of the house guarantees the lender at least the value of the house because the borrower now has positive equity and research shows that borrowers with positive equity don’t default. To put numbers on this story, suppose the borrower owes $150,000 on a $100,000 house. If the lender forecloses, let’s assume it collects, after paying the lawyers and the damage on the house, etc., $50,000. However, if it writes principal down to $95,000, it will collect $95,000 because the borrower now has positive equity and won’t default on the mortgage. Lenders could reduce principal and increase profits!
The problem with the principal reduction argument is that it hinges on a crucial assumption: that all borrowers with negative equity will default on their mortgages. To understand why this assumption is crucial to the argument, suppose there are two borrowers who owe $150,000 but one prefers not to default (perhaps because she has a particularly strong preference for her current home, or because she does not want to destroy her
credit, or because she thinks there’s a chance that house prices will recover) and eventually repays the whole amount while the other defaults. If the lender writes down both loans, it will collect $190,000 ($95,000 from each borrower). If the lender does nothing, it will eventually foreclose on one and collect $50,000, but it will recover the full $150,000 from the other borrower, thus collecting $200,000 overall. Hence, in this simple example, the lender will obtain more money by choosing to forgo principal reduction.
The obvious response is that the optimal policy should be to offer principal reduction to one borrower and not the other. However, this logic presumes that the lender can perfectly identify the borrower who will pay and the borrower who won’t. Given that there is a $55,000 principal reduction at stake here, the borrower who intends to repay has a strong incentive to make him- or herself look like the borrower who won’t!
This is an oft-encountered problem in the arena of public policy. Planners often have a preventative remedy that they have to implement before they know who will actually need the assistance. This inability to identify the individuals in need always raises the cost of the remedy, sometimes dramatically so. A nice illustration of this problem can be seen in the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) proposed regulation to require all cars to have backup cameras to prevent drivers from running over people when they drive in reverse. Hi-tech electronics mean that such cameras cost comparatively little: $159 to $203 for cars without a pre-existing navigation screen, and $53 to $88 for cars with a screen, according to the NHTSA. $200 seems like an awfully small price to pay to prevent gruesome accidents that are often fatal and typically involve small children and senior citizens. But the NHTSA says that the cameras are actually extremely expensive, and arguably prohibitively so. What gives? How can $200 be considered a lot of money in this context? The problem is that backup fatalities are extremely rare, something on the order of 300 per year, so the vast majority of backup cameras never prevent a fatality. To assess the true cost, one has to take into account the fact that for every one camera that prevents a fatality, hundreds of thousands will not. Done right, the NHTSA estimates the cost of the cameras between $11.3 and $72.2 million per life saved.
Some background
The idea of principal reduction starts with a correct premise: borrowers with positive equity—that is, houses worth more than the unpaid principal balance on their mortgages—rarely ever lose their homes to foreclosure. In the event of an unexpected problem (like an unemployment spell) that makes the mortgage unaffordable, borrowers with positive equity can profitably sell their house rather than default. The reason that foreclosures are rare in normal times is that house prices usually increase over time (inflation alone keeps them growing even if they are flat in real terms) so almost everyone has positive equity. What happened in 2006 is that house prices collapsed and millions of homeowners found themselves with negative equity. Many who got sick or lost their jobs were thus unable to sell profitably.
With this idea in mind, it then follows that if we could somehow get everyone back into positive-equity territory, then we could end the foreclosure crisis. To do that, we either need to inflate house prices, which is difficult to do and probably a bad idea anyway, or reduce the principal mortgage balances for negative-equity borrowers. So we have a cure for the foreclosure crisis: if we can get lenders to write down principal to give all Americans positive equity in their homes, the housing crisis would be over. Of course, the question becomes, who will pay? Estimates suggest that borrowers with negative equity owe almost a trillion dollars more than their homes are worth, and a trillion dollars, even now, is real money. The principal reduction idea might stop here—an effective but unaffordable plan—but people then realized that counting all the balance reduction as a cost was wrong. Furthermore, in fact, not only was the cost far less than a trillion dollars, but, as we noted above, many principal reduction proponents argue that it might not cost anything at all.
The logic that principal reduction can prevent foreclosures at no cost is compelling and seductive, and proposals to encourage principal reduction were common early in the foreclosure crisis. In a March 2008 speech, one of our bosses, Eric Rosengren, noted that “shared appreciation” arrangements had been offered as a way to reduce foreclosures; these arrangements had the lender reduce principal in return for a portion of future price gains realized on the house. In July 2008, Congress passed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008, which created Hope for Homeowners, a program that offered government support for new loans to borrowers if the lender was willing to write down principal.
While we were initially supportive of principal-reduction plans, we began to have doubts over the course of 2008. Our reasons were twofold. First, we could find no evidence that any lender was actually reducing principal. Commentators blamed the lack of reductions on legal issues related to mortgage securitization, but we became skeptical of this argument, because the incidence of principal reduction was so low that it was clear that securitization alone could not be the only problem or even a major one, (Subsequent research has shown this to be largely right: the effect of securitization on renegotiation was between nil and small in this crisis, and lenders did not reduce principal much even during the Depression, when securitization did not exist.) And the second issue, of course, was our realization of the logical flaw described above.
Negative equity and foreclosure
But aren’t we being pessimistic here? Aren’t we ignoring research that shows that negative equity is the best predictor of foreclosure? No, we aren’t. On the contrary, we have authored some of that research and have long argued for the central importance of negative equity in forecasting foreclosures. But what research shows is not that all or most people with negative equity will lose their homes but rather that while people with negative equity are much more likely to lose their homes, most eventually pay off their mortgages. The relationship of negative equity to foreclosure is akin to that of cholesterol and heart attacks: high cholesterol dramatically increases the odds of a heart attack, but the vast majority of people with high cholesterol do not have heart attacks any time in the near or even not-so-near future.
To be sure, there are some mortgages out there with very high foreclosure likelihood: loans made to borrowers with problematic credit and no equity to begin with, located in places where prices have fallen 60 percent or more. However, such loans are quite rare now—most of those defaulted soon after prices started to fall in 2007—and make up a small fraction of the pool of troubled loans currently at risk. To add to the problem, the principal reductions required to give such borrowers positive equity are so large that the $20–25 billion figure discussed for the new program would prevent at most tens of thousands of foreclosures and make only a small dent in the national problem.
Millions of borrowers with negative equity will default, but there are many millions more who will continue to make payments on their mortgages, behavior that is not, contrary to popular belief, a violation of economic theory. Economic theory only says that borrowers with positive equity won’t default (read it carefully). It is logically false to infer from this prediction that all borrowers with negative equity will default. “A implies B” does not mean that “not A” implies “not B,” as any high school math student can explain. And in fact, standard models show that the optimal default threshold occurs at a price level below and often significantly below the unpaid principal balance on the mortgage.
The problem of asymmetric information
Ultimately the reason principal reduction doesn’t work is what economists call asymmetric information: only the borrowers have all the information about whether they really can or want to repay their mortgages, information that lenders don’t have access to. If lenders weren’t faced with this asymmetric information problem—if they really knew exactly who was going to default and who wasn’t—all foreclosures could be profitably prevented using principal reduction. In that sense, foreclosure is always inefficient—with perfect information, we could make everyone better off. But that sort of inefficiency is exactly what theory predicts with asymmetric information.
And, in all this discussion, we have ignored the fact that borrowers can often control the variables that lenders use to try to narrow down the pool of borrowers that will likely default. For example, most of the current mortgage modification programs (like the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP) require borrowers to have missed a certain number of mortgage payments (usually two) in order to qualify. This is a reasonable requirement since we would like to focus assistance on troubled borrowers need help. But it is quite easy to purposefully miss a couple of mortgage payments, and it might be a very desirable thing to do if it means qualifying for a generous concession from the lender such as a reduction in the principal balance of the mortgage.
Economists are usually ridiculed for spinning theories based on unrealistic assumptions about the world, but in this case, it is the economists (us) who are trying to be realistic. The argument for principal reduction depends on superhuman levels of foresight among lenders as well as honest behavior by the borrowers who are not in need of assistance. Thus far, the minimal success of broad-based modification programs like HAMP should make us think twice about the validity of these assumptions. There are likely good reasons for the lack of principal reduction efforts on the part of lenders thus far in this crisis that are related to the above discussion, so the claim that such efforts constitute a win-win solution should, at the very least, be met with a healthy dose of skepticism by policymakers.
Chris Foote
Senior economist and policy adviser at the Boston Fed
Kris Gerardi
Research economist and assistant policy adviser at the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
Paul Willen
Research economist and policy adviser at the Boston Fed
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WHERE DOES THE FRAUD BEGIN?
Let’s start our journey of discovery with the purchase of a home and subsequent steps in the financial process through th life of the “mortgage loan”. It all starts at the “closing” where we gathand buy something, you are then making a purchase with a “Note” (a promise to pay). There is absolutely no gold or silver backing the Federal Reserve Notes that we refer to as “money” today.
When you sit down at the closing table to complete the transaction to purchase your home aren’t you tendering a “Note” with your signature which would be considered money? That is exactly what you are doing. A “Note” is money in our monetary system today! You can deposit the “Federal Reserve Note” (a promise to pay) with a denomination of $10 at the bank and they will credit your account in that same amount. Why is it that when you tender your “Note” at the closing that they don’t tell you that your home is paid for right on the spot? The fact is that it IS PAID FOR ON THE SPOT. Your signature on a “Note” makes that “Note” money in the amount that is stated on the “Note”! Was this disclosed to you at the “closing” in either verbal or written form? Could this be the place where the other players come into the transaction at or near the time of closing? What happens to the “Note” (promise to pay) that you sign at the closing table? Do they put it in their vault for safe keeping as evidence of a debt that you owe them as you are led to believe? Do they return that note to you if you pay off your mortgage in 5, 10 or 20 years? Do they disclose to you that they do anything other than put it away for safe keeping once it is in their possession?
WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO THE “NOTE”?
Unknown to almost everyone, there is something VERY different that happens with your “Mortgage Note” immediately after closing.
Your “Mortgage Note” is endorsed and deposited in the bank as a er with other people that are “involved” in the process to sign the documents to purchase our new home. Do we really know what goes on at the closing? Are we ever told who all the participants are in that entire process? Are we truly given “full disclosure” of all the various aspects of that entire transaction regarding what, for most people, is the single largest purchase they will make in their entire life?
Let’s start with the very first part of the transaction. We have a virtual stack of papers placed in front of us and we are instructed where we are supposed to start signing or initiling on those “closing documents”. There seems to be so many different documents with enough legal language that we could read for hours just to get through the the first time, much less begin to fully understand them. Are we given a copy of all these documents at least 7 days prior to the closing so we can read and study these documents so w fully understand what it is that we are signing and agreeing to? That has never happened for the average consumer and purchaser of a property in the last 30 years or more if it ever has at al. WHY? We have a stack of documents placed before us at the “closing” that we haven’t ever seen before and are instructed where to sign or initial to complete the transaction and “get our new home”. We depend on the real estate agent, in most cases, to bring the parties together at the closing after we have supplied enough financial data and other requested information so tat the “lender” can determine whether we can qualify for our “loan”. Obviously we have the “three day right of rescission” but do we really stop to read all the documents after we have just purchased our home and want to move in? Is the thought that there might be something wrong with what we have just signed a primary thought in our mind at that time? Did we trust the people involved in the transaction? Are we naturally focusing on getting moved into our new home and getting settled with our family?
Who are the players involved in the transaction from the perspective of the consumer purchasing a property and signing a “Mortgage Note” and “Deed” or similar “Security Instrument” at the closing? There is, of course, the seller, the real estate agent(s), title insurance company, property appraiser who is supposed to properly determine the value of the property, and the most obvious one being who we believe to be “the lender” in the transaction. We are led, by all involved, to believe that we are, in fact, borrowing money from the “lender” which is then paid to the current owner of the property as compensation for them relinquishing any “claim of ownership” to the property and transferring that “claim of ownership” to us as the purchaser. It all seems so simple and clear on its face and then the transaction is completed. After the “closing” everyone is all smiles and you believe you have a new home and have to repay the “lender”, over a period of years, the money which you believe you have “borrowed”.
IS THERE SOMETHING WE DON’T KNOW?
Everything appears to be relatively simple and straightforward but is that really the case? Could it be that there are other players involved in this whole transaction that we know nothing about that have a very substntial financial interest in what has just occurred? Could it be that those players that we are totally unaware of have somehow used us without our knowledge or
consent to secure a spectacular financial gain for themselves with absolutely no investment or risk to themselves whatsoever? Could it be that there is a hidden aspect of this whole transaction that is “standard operating procedure” in an industry where this hidden “aspect of a transaction” occurs every single banking day across this country and beyond? Could it be that this hidden “aspect of a transaction” is a deliberate process to unjustly enrich certain individuals and entities at the expense of the public as a whole? Could it be that there was not full disclosure of the “true nature” of the transaction as it actually occurred which is required for a contract to be valid and enforceable?
THE DOCUMENTS INVOLVED
The two most important and valuable documents that are signed at a closing are the “Note” and the “Deed” in various forms. When looking at the definition of a “Mortgage Note” it is obvious that it is a “Security Instrument”. It is a promise to pay made by the maker of that “Note”. When looking at a copy of a “Deed of Trust” such as the attached Exhibit “A”, which is a template of a Tennessee “Deed of Trust” form that is directly from the freddiemac.com website, it is very obvious that this document is also a “Security Instrument”. This is a template that is used for MOST government purchased loans. You will note that the words “Security Instrument” are mentioned no less than 90 times in that document. Is there ANY doubt it is a “Security”? When at the closing, the “borrower” is led
to believe that the “Mortgage Note” that he signs is a document that binds him to make repayment of “money” that the “lender” is loaning him to purchase the property he is acquiring. Is there disclosure to the “borrower” to the effect that the “lender” is not really loaning any of their money to the “borrower” and therefore is taking no risk whatsoever in the transaction? Is it disclosed to the “borrower” that according to FEDERAL LAW, banks are not allowed to loan credit and are also not allowed to loan their own or their depositor’s money? If that is the case, then how could this transaction possibly take place? Where does the money come from? Is there really any money to be loaned? The answer to this last question is a resounding NO! Most people are not aware that there has been no lawful money since the bankruptcy of the United States in 1933.
Since House Joint Resolution 192 (HJR 192) (Public law 7310)
was passed in 1933 we have only had debt, because all property and gold was seized by the government as collateral in the bankruptcy of the United States. Most people today would think they have money in their hand when they pull something out of their pocket and look at the pape that is circulated by the banks that they have been told is “money”. In reality they are looking at a “Federal Reserve Note” which is stated right on the face of the piece of paper we have come to know as “money”. It is NOT really “money”, it is debt, a promise to pay made by the United States! If you take a “Federal Reserve Note” showing a value of ten dollars
Isn’t our Government wonderful? They deceived and betrayed us, sold out our country and then stuck it to all of us. Why? Because foreign elite secret societies are really running the show because treasonists within our own governmental structure put money , power and greed before their people and country. . They used us up, then kicked us to the curb. Kinda like what a pimp does. The reason we are all here today is because of a secret plan these eliteists hatched over 100 years ago to upsurp our Government and take over the world. They are the New World Order/ the U.N. Do not be fooled about who the main players are hiding behind the scenes of this. They are mostly foreign and they intend to do us permanent harm No one is safe, they are the vatican assassins and they are hiding behind the scenes of this entire Financial/ Foreclosuregate cisis and they have many faces and many cohorts.
We are here because of Keneysian economic policies put in place by the elite so they may be able to create countries full of debt slaves. Paper currency is A FRAUD. We have nothing but worthless paper. With the value of this paper as worthless as it is, we would never be able to pay back any debt with this for many lifetimes. They have put us in the preverbial “trick bag”. This money is backed by 0. Gold and silver are the only currencies that never lose its MONETARY value. They knew this. They screwed all of us..Paper money has put all of us in a debtor’s prison. We the people owe NO allegiance to this falsely created foreign debt. It was a SCAM by the NEW WORLD ORDER to own and control the world by creating massive falsely induced, fraudulenlty created debt. They RANG US UP. WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE FRAUD BORN OF CORRUPTION. WALK AWAY FROM ALL OF THE DEBT. Taxes are more falsely induced and unsubstantiated falsely created debt slavery. America needs aNationwide tax revolt. A REAL TEA PARTY.
There are going to be no principal write downs and no loan mods. Fannie/Freddie are going away is what Timothy Geithner said today. The banks have no one to guarantee/back the fraudulent inducements. The banks don’t want to take the risk on of us defaulting. If we default they will probably not be able to cash in their credit default swap insurance, that is a risk they are not willing to take. The national default rate is the direction this is going. The more defaults drives the default rate to 0. That means to the bank no one is defaulting and they can no longer fraudclose if technically no one is defaultling. I hear strategic default is the new trend among homeowners. Way to go America. Let’s bring them down. They robbed us with impunity and it was intentional.
I vent, it appears to me that alot of lawyers are reading from cookie cutter texts either due to the fact they are uninformed or scared because they are not up to speed.This is very daunting not just for us but for SOME of them as well.The ones that actually do have thier clients best interest at heart are scared of being run out of town on a rail if they do not suceed.Should this excuse them never but to an extent I understand.What I don’t understand is when faced with all the ammunition we have why we still can’t get anywhere?My only answer is that it’s all rigged and they are complicit with everything and they are not going to rock the boat.Somewhere there has to be some lawyer or judge that should do something.But it is not wide spread and pervasive yet.I agree it is pay back time,now how to carry that out and bring to fruition?
The more people that default brings the default rate to 0. It is like no one is defaulting then the banks cannot fraudclose. A lawyer told me this. We need those default numbers. This is an important number.That is when the fraudclosures stop. We also need a nationwide tax revolt. That is how we will be heard. Our money talks and then their bullshit walks.
I vent so in essence what he was telling you was we have a judicial pricing clearinghouse running here. I’ll bet that DOCX and lps have price sheets for :Criminal Fraud….200.00 Oh you’ve been a very bad bank ….100.00 and so on .Thats why thier not afraid of us is because they know that its only a monetary penalty and thats it.
@Pamela: That is the angle the lawyer obviously wants to avoid because the fraud is an obvious joke to the judges and the banks. Apparently the judges are making a mockery of our claims of fraud. Anyone hear what the nationwide default rate is in America right now? An attorney back a few months ago told me the more defaults will bring the default rate to 0 and then the banks will no longer be able to FRAUDCLOSE because that will mean the exact same thing as NO ONE is defaulting.WE NEED THOSE NUMBERS.. Bloomberg is having a special report tommorrow on the rising rate of Strategic Default in America, they are calling it “Keeping up with the Joneses” Way to go America!!!!! We got set up and robbed. by the Casino PERPS, THE WALL STREET/BANKER CABAL and hiding behind the scenes of that are the foreigners , the vatican assasins and the aristocrats, The sheeps in wolves clothing who were the masterminds behind the whole PONZI SCHEME ROBBERY. Time for the AMERICAN PEOPLE TO DEFAULT ON ALL OF THE FRAUDSTERS. THEY SCREWED ALL OF US. IT IS PAY BACK TIME. .
we had a place run what is know as a forensics on our mortage, this helped identify the fraud,predatory
lending,TILA,RESPA,&HOPEA violations within this refi. Original mortage is even worse. Without
this forensics investigation we would have had no clue about all the illegalities. What is needed to
make theses work are doc to back them up which we have. County doc’s,original mortage doc’s,etc…
Hopefully this just might work?????
@Pamela and losing my home in florida: I forgot to add that in my fraudclosure summons my pretender lender is trying to hide behind MERS/U.N. and the fraudsters are using them as a nominee. Last I checked, my house has been inactive in MERS/U.N. since 2007. Aren’t they scumbags?
@Pamela, The attorney I spoke with yesterday told me that the forging of my mortgage docs will only result in a $200.00 fine for the criminals, a mere slap on the wrist from the judge.. He told me I am better off using that whole package of fraud as leverage to negotiate with the pretender lender than try and nit pick it with the judge.. The whole loan is fraudulent from start to finish.
I vent just a note in reference to original doc’s I checked my original mortgage doc’s and found a place that said we weren’t supposed to make a payment until 4/1/11.My loan originated inJuly of 2005.So how did I go into default inJan. of 2010 if my first payment is not due till 4/1/11?
@Pamela: The further we dig, the more we find out that they deceived and robbed us all blind. There is alot of fraud in our mortgages. Maybe we should be taking this stuff to the criminal lawyers and the appellate courts if the judges in the chancery division are all corrupt. I think there is definite proof of criminal liability here. I think this all may just have to go all the way up to the Supreme Court level if the people cannot get the justice they truly deserve. We can’t continue to be left defenseless by a corrupt bunch of lawyers and judges who are aiding and abetting the criminals. They are stealing our country right out from under us. This is Nazi Germany warfare against the American people right here in America. The judges and the their lawyer are their commrades and they must have a hell of a deal cooking with the Nazi’s. What a disgrace. The judges and the lawyers are stealing our whole country from their own people and giving our homes to the FOREIGNERS ON A SILVER PLATTER. These are the very same crooks that set us up and robbed us and they are now posing as lawyers and judges, they are all completely CORRUPT TREASONISTS!!!!!. They are not Americans, they are imposters!!
@Pamela and losing my home in florida: I have a footnote to add about my trip to the lawyer today. My recorders office gave me a good piece of advice that I would like to share with you guys. She told me to have my i’s dotted and my t’s crossed BEFORE I SEE A LAWYER SO I DID. I HAD THE LAWYER SPEECHLESS. HE TOLD ME IN THE END OF MY CONSULTATION THAT IT LOOKS LIKE I WON MYSELF A FREE HO– USE. THANK YOU 4closurefraud!!!!! I could have never gathered the ammunition I needed to defend my home without you guys. You are the bomb!!!! Now I still have to do a title search but I know my mortgage is unsecured because of the recording flaws. The attorney VERIFIED THAT. We have to do our homework and it sure paid off today I really needed to have the PROOF to back myself up. When we know the truth all of the lies remain lies. God Bless America!!!!!
thank you for the updat. i wrote the OCC sat 3/12, and the wells fargo office of president called me yesterday so it must be they are worried because i have so much fraud on the m. please help us out
what is about the recording of docs that makes it an unsecurred laon because the lady at county told me the opposite. i only had the mortgage 16 pages. no note and no assignments. she said they dont record the notes and the assignment can take months. i told her its been 5 years she didnt know what to say. so we are all getting different info at county level. and if you may what other “dirt” did you have that the lawyer liked so much thank you
@losing my home in florida: Look at the prior doc #s in the recordings. What are they attached to? Look where the mortgage is recorded. Does the prior doc# match the Doc# for the deed? There are no assignments and no notes recorded here on mine either. I dont’ think even if the mortgage doc#s match the deed, which in my case they do not, that is a valid lien without an asignment. The stories about what the banks must legally do to perfect a lien change daily and so do the laws it seems. Have you ever watched Chris Whalen’s video interview with Bloomberg called Foreclosuregate is a cancer you can google this. He speaks in that video about how the “lenders” never perfected the collateral lien and it was the commercial property as well as the residential. I am dealing with both here. Now I am hearing the banksters have up to 12 years to record an assignment. The statute of limitations has run out on them in my state but that is still ridiculous. Do we have up to 12 years to make a mortgage payment? HA!!!. The bottom line is the banks never perfected the collateral lien and I believe that was intentional. Now the attorney is telling me to do a title search to make sure there are no liens.We would not have the deeds if there were a lien. My recorder’s office told me there were no liens on my deed and that was 2 weeks ago because I went down there for a third time and checked, There is a lot of funny business going on here. .The other dirt I have is the forging of mine and my husband’s initials and the typos on my mortgage that appeared after the closing. The new pin# so they could hide the origination fraud. I even have the original mortgage and note, unsigned from the origination of my loan. So they obviously do not have the original note because I have it. Isn’t that a hoot? The lawyer also told me what makes our deeds valid is the title insurance policy and I have that, too. I know they do not have a clear chain of title either because my pretender lender told me they want me to sell my home. LMAO! These people really suck. Our justice system is now trying to cover up for the banker fraud. The attorneys who are supposed to be representing us and the judges who are supposed to be impartial and upholding the law to protect the victims are helping the criminals to steal our property.. They want to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil against the criminals. It is just a travesty. They want to completely ignore our property rights and just outright steal our property without the proper documents and the lawyers and th judges want to help them rob us. They banks DID NOT do their due dilligence in the first place to perfect the collateral lien and now the lawyers and the judges are making laws for that.too. They want to cover the banksters asses and screw us, the victims. The lawyer told me I should call the pretender lender and ask them why they are even bothering dragging this into the courts as they do not have the proper documntation to fraudclose. I will let you know how the title search goes. I hate all of these bastards.
@Losing my home In florida: The deed is the collateral and the mortgage is the lien. We have the deed with title insurance attached so they are screwed because we WOULD NOT HAVE IN OUR POSSESSION the TITLE TO THE HO– USE or any property if there was a lien. They want us to “think” we are screwed when in reality it is they who are screwed. They are deceptive liars and thieves. They better stop stealing the peoples homes. The widespread corruption in America is completely reprehensible. It is a disgrace.How do these judges sleep at night knowing they are stealing this country out from under from their own people? They are going to wake up one day and say to themselves: What have we done to the land our father’s built? Then when they die they are going to have to answer for it to a power much higher than they will ever be. The lawyers and the judges are putting the final nails in the coffin of America by aiding and abetting the U.N. in stealing our homes they do not own. Money may buy them happiness in this life but not in the next one..
After reading all of the above reactions, I would like to ask the lending community this question. “If you took inventory of 1,000,000 loans, how many would show in today’s real world positive equity? I would qualify the question by restricting the question to inventory of loans processed since 2005. My, Mom’s home which is worth $100,000 with a mortgage balance of $10,000 would totally impact the question.
Once we understand that the majority of homes, which I call “decaying assets” are under water, then the banks, (pretender lenders) and once the investors or purchasers of the certificates in the ASB Trusts could prove damages, instead of the creeps that have already been paid their service release premiums and are still circling for blood then and maybe then reality of the true value of the current market might be re-appraised.
@regis sauger: I had an attorney tell me 6 mos. ago the more defaults there are that brings the default rate to 0 defaults. That is just the same as if noone is defaulting. Then it is not worthwhile for the banks to fraudclose if everyone is technically defaulting. Does anyone know what the TRUE rate of default is right now? I have a feeling it is pretty high. I think this is why the lawyers are hedging.
Just like they will tell you UCC,common law,and Constitutional do not exsist and are not practiced.Well obviousley they exsist but practiced not so much and they really hate it when they are made to at least recognize it.Just like not recording were all lead down the proverbial path for someone else’s gain.I’m sure somewhere this is all on the books but they don’t want us to find it so it can help our cases.I vent that lawyer sounds like he was trying to feed you a crop of crap.Ask youir recorder where this statute can be found for both your county and state.
@Pamela: The attorney did tell me that the banksters are not REQUIRED by law to record, BUT HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT IS TO THEIR OWN DETRIMENT BECA– USE IF THEY DID NOT RECORD PROPERLY MY MORTGAGE IS NOW AN UNSECURED DEBT. SO CLEARLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS .SIX OF ONE HALF A DOZEN OF ANOTHER. My County Recorder told me my house is paid for. The statute of limitations has run out on the banksters to collect a debt. When I told the attorney this he looked like a deer in the headlights and then and only then did he tell me THE TRUTH. It is an unsecured debt. He also told me how to represent myself pro se. Isnt that ridiculous? I gave him $150.00 for a consultation fee. And he told me to do a title search on my titles to my 2 properties. He said this is the only way to know for sure the house is lien free. Why would my recorders office tell me the house has no liens or i would not have the deed. The deed is the title to the house, I know that it is. SOMETHING STINKS.
I read that we are really being ruled under Roman Law. They lied to us. America is really a dictatorship. They are trying their damndest to hide it from us. Those scoundrels, they lied to us about everything.
I went to see an attorney today about my fraudclosures. He told me in not so many words the banksters are pretty much above the law and they can do whatever they want. He told me that banks DO NOT HAVE TO PUBLICLY RECORD. THERE IS NO LAW IN THE STATE OF IL THAT REQUIRES THE BANKS TO PUBLICLY RECORD. That is a lie. My recorders office told me quite the opposite is true. So there we have it folks, NOW IT IS OFFICIAL, LIES ARE NOW THE TRUTH. The banks are making up the laws as they go along to steal from you and me. The Criminals are the good guys and are running the country and stealing with impunity FROM THE INNOCENT HOMEOWNERS, THE VICTIMS, with the blessings of OUR judges .THIS IS BECA– USE OF CORRUPTION. As I suspected the lawyers are pretty much defenseless against the rampant corruption and they figure they can’t beat em so they are joining them and are trying to FORCE US TO BELIEVE THE LIES ARE THE TRUTH. What a travesty.
first we as citizens we revoke the supreme courts ruling of life time appiontments then we remind them that their jobs do not require a degree
just common sense and a knowledge of the law along with a sense of fair play then we view thier case ledger to see if their are any discrepencys
when you find a judge that passes constitutional and judical muster then you’ve found a keeper
Well then how about this we get the Judges to do their jobs(adhere to the law) and we prosecute
the fraud which can be proven through forensics audit of the mortages. Then we sue for all we’ve lost.
Send the fools to prision along with the rest of criminals. Just need to find Judges that understand
their Job!!!!! Another viable solution,we could disertate on this endlessly and to no avail. If I default on a loan the loan company get to reposses the item involved, if the contract is equitable , then if they default for any of the reasons that would be held against me ,should also be used against them , there for the home owner should
retain the home if fraud is proven.
my personal favorite solution would be to gather all involved parties from lenders to the Judges envoled in
this corruption and tar&feather them and run them out of this GREAT NATION…just my opinion
actuallly pamela i htink you hit on the nutshell. all defaulted mortgages need to be proven for fraud, ect (wheres the note, all paper work true and correct, no modification fraud present) if fraud is found then these loans get a principle reduction mortgage. and the banksters go to jail. how they not know to do this. why would they forego prinicple reductions. they dont get it do they, that we want to stay in our homes
Losing my home in florida,
Uh oh! Don’t tell Pamela you want a principal reduction and to stay in your home. She’ll accuse you of working for the banks and trying to indoctrinate the people on this forum. Then you’ll be attacked by others, who know nothing about you, as being unpatriotic. Lol!
Pamela,
Your solution above is what I have been advocating all along. Foreclosure cases are not won by the defense. Fraud cases might be. Hire a good lawyer, bring in experts, and prove the case. That is a viable solution. The only thing above that is not viable is the suggestion that “we get judges to do their jobs.” As soon as you figure out how to make that happen, let me and every other lawyer know your secret 😉
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.Facebook.com/MediatorKen
@losing my home in florida: Whoa, I had a private attorney tell me today that the banks are only doing principal write downs in 3 PERCENT of mortgages. The banks DO NOTwant to help us. WE ARE TOO BIG OF A LIABILITY. NICE, HUH? The attorney told me the banksters learned their lesson during the last Great Depression when they gave 60 year loan mods. to the struggling homeowners. The liability was too big for the banksters. It was not lucrative enough so now THEY ARE INSURED TO THE HILT WITH AIG BACKING THEM UP WITH PMI AND CREDIT DEFAULT SWAP INSURANCE. You remember AIG, the giant insurance corporation the AMERICAN PEOPLE BAILED OUT? AIG was too big to fail because they INSURED ALL OF THE MORTGAGE FRAUD. They will never send the banksters to jail, they are the pets of the elite aristocrats who are behind FRAUDCLOSUREGATE..The Banksters made them even more wealthy so why would they bite the hand that defrauded all of us and made them even more nauseatingly wealthy? That was their plan! They are all completely despicable. We need to bring them down. Did those BofA secrets come out today? I think those will prove there was a definite intent to do permanent harm to all of us. I believe there is proof that this was well planned and well engineered to intentionally destroy the American people.
@Pamela: I had a private attorney tell me today that there is NO such thing as a forensic auditor, they do not exist, that is a scam. We don’t need them anyway, we can prove the fraud, We have the proof in our original loan docs to compare the fraud in the fraudclosures to. The private attorney told me I could use my fraud discoveries as leverage to get a fair deal with the banks. I think that is taking the criminal liability a bit lightly, don’t you? I never said I wanted to bargain for a fair deal from the same crooks who are trying to destroy me. They already defrauded me and I have the proof of the fraudulent inducement of my mortgage but he did not seem to think that was worth the money, time or effort. I think the fraudclosure attorneys are in bed with the banksters and they are looking for the best deal for themselves. They know all of us do not have alot of money to pay so they are turning criminal, too. I caught him contradict himself several times. He does not seem to think the criminal defense attorney route is the correct route for me to take. I beg to differ.
The Federal Reserve employees and the big banks who believe that principal reductions are not good for the housing industry are both right and wrong. They are mostly wrong for the reasons they say out loud and they are mostly right for the reasons they don’t talk about. Consider there is a debt to be paid. Homeowners have already sacrificed aporximately $7.6 trillion in equity. Taxpayers have subsidized about $4 trillion and continue to pay for the carrying costs of the Fed’s purchase of toxic assets and much more. Housing prices are predicted to fall 10% to 25% more over the next year. One thing we can be sure of is that additional foreclosures will continue the cycle of loss in value and more foreclosures. At what point does the housing market bottom? Who has paid for the lion’s share of the mistakes made by our banks? How much have the banks (wo had a big hand in creating this mess) paid? How much have the investors, who made poor investment decisions, lost or paid? The cost is a burden to all however there is a darker reason that the Fed is supporting the TBTF banks. The banks are fighting for survival…to put much more on their backs could force a collapse. The investors won’t go under, but the swaps that guarantee the investments would have to pay off any default, and that would lead to a domino cascade that would ruin the world economy. The Fed and the Obama Administration already know this, but they don’t have the will to tell people the truth. How would it sound to the masses if you told everyone that the economic debacle that was caused by the banks will be paid off by the little people. It would be political suicide. If you think that any prosecutions will take place, you are wrong. If you think there will be any type of real settlement with the big banks (not just a public slap on the wrist), it will never happen. Be ready for 20 years or more of suffering as we, the folks on Main Street, pay off the debts for the fat cats.
Tom,
I agree with everything you wrote, with the exception of the investors making poor decisions. The investors were relying on bogus ratings by Moody’s and S&P. AAA CDOs backed by sub-prime mortgages certain to fail were the norm.
I believe if the banks were to account for the real losses, they’d be insolvent, which is another reason that so many of these foreclosures cases are languishing.
The bottom line is that there are huge losses in the system that will have to be shouldered and the unfortunate reality is that those losses up until now have been shouldered by the investors and the homeowners. I agree with you that this will not change.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.Facebook.com/MediatorKen
Mediator Ken, A viable solution would be if the loan should have never been brought into exsistence then go back and pay people for what they made in payments with penaltys and interest,reimburse them for property taxes and insurance on loans that were bad and fraudulent at the begining and should never have been made.And do so with style and good grace knowing that this is the best customer satisfaction you can give.Do not take advantage of people just because you have the legal expertise and sophistication to do so. Would this cure the problem no not completley of course,but what it would do is show good faith and diligence on thier part.Handled at least in part like this would give us all a chance to go on with our lives.If they don’t want us to have our homes and it’s due to no fault of our own that be were snookered into these loans then give us back what we had when we started complete with cleaned up credit reports.I could go on and on and they’re all viable solutions.Had they been more work able alot of this would not be happening.I wait with baited breath for your next discourse on the subject matter.
I actually like that solution and if workable I think it would solve the problem, however, it simply isn’t workable. Tthe problems that you would encounter in that solutions are as follows:
1. The lenders will never admit to any fraud, it would need to be proven in a court of law, or in the alternative recognized by congress.
2. Once the fraud were proven, the remedy would not be to return all the borrowers payments, taxes and insurance, etc, because the courts would consider that unjust enrichment. The courts would expect the homeowner to pay for the time spent in the home. At least that’s the sort of remedy you’d have to have in civil court, and of course criminal court would not require any reimbursement whatsoever.
3. Your solution contemplates the borrower leaving, yet many of the borrowers would want to stay in the homes in which they raised their children and have grown to love. The homeowners should have the right to make that decision, especially if they were defrauded, to dictate to them what they have to do would be like rubbing salt in their wounds.
The biggest problem is simply, and I know you know this, it will never happen. That is why I asked you for a viable solution. It astounds me that your proposed solution is one that requires the lenders to voluntarily do the right thing. You obviously know that is never going to happen. I have never once seen a lender act altruistically, and I doubt I ever will. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are facing homelessness and those of us who actually roll up our sleeves and try to seek solutions for those homeowners have to look at the situation realistically.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.Facebook.com/MediatorKen
1. I’m somewhat confused. You did say you litigate, correct? You must be one lucky guy if your cases never have to prove their claim. I would think every lawyer practicing would be down there in the sunny state. Even criminals require the prosecution to prove its case (in most instances). Why would these cases be any different. I don’t expect Bank of America to show up in court waving white flags and just handing me a check. If they did, I would never get to cash it because I would probably die from a heart attack right in the middle of the courtroom.
2. Even if the homeowner were to prove fraud, deciet, unjust and unfair dealings and a plethora of other dirty illegal deeds, the judge would not be inclined to award too much to the defrauded homeowner based on “unjust enrichment”. Say again.?? Did you really say that? Have you ever pled and won a case and also were awarded punitive damages? I guess not, that would be unjust enrichment. Please, you went to Georgetown; what is the court’s purpose in awarding punitive damages along with compensatory damages? This is law 101. The monetary damages would be in civil court then let the Feds prosecute them in criminal court for the world’s biggest ponzi scheme perpetrated on the American public. So after they get done paying for all the damage they have caused, they can then spend up close and personal time with Bernie.
3. Sounds like a sappy TV commercial. Get real..people want to survive and be compensated. We are sick of the tolerance, as you suggest is the case, by the legal system to white collar crime. I tried for 2 years to sell my home and scale my expenses down and get on with my life. Can’t help that the market did not allow that to happen. Then went round and round for a mod while I still had a credit rating in the upper 700’s and a savings account. Many of us have played that game and lost. We are sick and tired of playing and losing. I would be happy to hand my Bank of America files over to a judge for a review. I have owned a number of homes through the years and have never seen anything like my loan refinance file. Each week I keep receiving more documents from them based on two QWR letters sent and what I find just keeps getting better by the week. I know that there is not a person on this blog who expects the banks so have a suddent epiphany of their dirty deeds and wrongdoing. But I do believe that should the general population find out that the banks have also taken from them and that they will be paying, also, for the next 20 years, they will not be very happy with their politicians and AG’s. As for the lower court judges ruling in favor of the banks where fraud and laws have been proven, broken; take it to to the appealate court. We will all go pro se and drive all of the judges totally insane.
As for the threat of the collapse of the banking industry…..that is exactly what it is…….a threat…..a scare tactic. If they are permitted to get away with what they have….they will keep on robbing everyone until it collapses anyway. I say B S to that. Excuse my french.
I will now exit and go work on my case files which is what I should have been doing rather than writing this wonderful short selection. Good evening to all..
med ken this statement “There are a great many homeowners who would love the security of resolving their case, with a modified loan that includes a principal write-down and terms that make sense. ” seems to me to again set up the homeowner for more of the same fraudulent activity perpetrated by the same folks who set them up in the first place. The only security they will find is false and all who sell this action should be prosucuted and you know this or should ..to include lawyers and judges too. It only makes sense for those who seek to gain possibly illegal gains or revenue generators.
Pamela,
What is your answer to the crisis faced by so many homeowners? I ask this out of genuine interest. What would you do to help those people and solve this problem?
And please offer a viable solution…something that will achieve justice as you see it and help the hundreds of thousands of homeowners in my sate alone who are facing homelessness.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.Facebook.com/MediatorKen
Medaitor Ken, child like okay but led to the slaughter by you and your ilk I think not and oh by the way I never yell .
Mediator Ken, Let me be a tad bit more specific for you,you can not crush down nor modify fraud.As a lawyer you should better understand this than we the public who have no education or very little.What we have discovered is the greatest fraud ever perpetreated against the world.You would do well to come on board with this theory and drop your indoctrination speech.What happened to just upholding the law,you know the stuff that you guys were supposed to be doing all the time instead of when you can make money off of it or perhaps a name.Fraud is fraud and you are just perpetuating it with this kind of work.You do not only your self a grave injustice but the American people as well.I would shudder to be your client.
Pamela,
There is a tremendous amount of fraud within the entire sub-prime mortgage industry. From the top down, it’s riddled with fraud. However, not every mortgage is fraudulent, nor is every foreclosure lawsuit fraudulently prosecuted. By yelling at the top of your lungs that every mortgage is fraudulent, you just dilute the case against the real fraudulent loans.
And the worst part is that you have no end game. You’re like a recalcitrant child who thinks that if she screams and yells loud enough she’ll get her way. I hate to tell you, but simply telling the banks to go screw themselves accomplishes nothing. The only way to achieve any justice is through targeted lawsuits.
Meanwhile there are families who want desperately to stay in their homes, and while you may have no problem with the banks throwing those families out on the street just to prove your point that we should not be dealing with the banks, I do have a problem with people being dispossessed of their homes in that manner.
It’s also important to note that most of the principal reduction agreements I’ve seen lately do not waive any defenses or counterclaims, so the homeowner could still pursue any claim it has against the lender for fraud.
You would do well to take a step back, analyze the overall situation, and develop a viable strategy for achieving justice.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.facebook.com/MediatorKen
@Mediator Ken: Not every mortgage is fraudulent? You mean I am just one of the special ones that got defrauded? Lucky me. . I think there are millions of us and I think YOU know this is true. If theRE weren’t millions of us, NONE OF US WOULD BE HERE TODAY IN FRAUDCLOSURE. STOP LYING. I am willing to bet that a SO CALLED’MEDIATOR’ such as youself may be able to become wealthy by LYING AND DECEIVNG DEFENSELESS PEOPLE ABOUT HOW RAMPANT THE MORTGAGE FRAUD WAS. I guess the FBI lied to the GOVERNMENT IN 2004 about the RAMPANT MORTGAGE FRAUD IN THE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY. The FBI warned THE MORTGAE FRAUD WAS INDUSTRY WIDE and that if THE RAMPANT MORTGAGE FRAUD was not addressed there would be a financial collapse. You mediator Ken are clearly working for THEM and that makes you as bad if not worse than them, YOU WANT TO HELP SCREW THE PEOPLE TOO. YOU ARE NO PATRIOT.
@Mediator Ken: I suppose if the homeowner’s feet are held to the FIRE. they do not want to lose their homes. The logic of this is flawed because Principal write downs and Loan Modifications given to a maybe unsuspecting homeowner who may not be able to find the fraud in their mortgage yet, that is DECEPTIVE.. Papering over the problem or kicking the can down the road for a later date is not going to “fix” Fraudclosuregate. The Judges MUST KNOW THIS is only a TEMPORARY FIX. The people will find out what was done to them sooner or later because the truth is out there. Then it will be back to SQUARE ONE. The Lender must be FORCED TO PROVE in court they are owed the money or THIS WILL NOT WORK. THE LYING AND DECEIVING OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MUST STOP. WE WERE DEFRAUDED AND WE WERE ROBBED ON A MASSIVE SCALE. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE FRAUDCLOSUREGATE, Principal writed downs and FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED LOAN MODS. THAT IS MORE FRAUD. THE JUDGES ARE FORCING HOMEOWNERS WITH THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE TO ASSUME A NEW DEBT. THAT IS MORE FRAUD. THE DEFRAUDING OF THE HOMEOWNER MUST STOP. IT IS DESPICABLE.
I agree with your last sentence. A planned strategy of action will most like produce the best results.
However, the banking industry along with the legal and political systems have done a great spin job on placing the blame of the housing crisis freefall on the “deadbeat” homeowner. This was genius planning well in advance to divert the attention away from those who were committing the most egregious fraud ever. A great defense for Madoff. If what the banks have done is legal then charges should be dropped against Madoff. Sometimes one must scream and shout to get draw attention to the “real” issue at hand, even if it means behaving like a recalcitrant child.
You mention targeted lawsuits, however, those costs lots of money and then when the litigant does not prevail, it is simply more devestation. Many can’t affort attorneys. Why are the states not pursuing charges against these crimes? We first must be heard and get our stories and proof out before there is any chance of prevailing in the courts.
Right on the money Pamela! They are using more flawed logic to fix a broken,corrupt business model of fraud. Mediator Ken seems to think you are the screamer but it is me, and I am proud of it. This is America and Ranting and Raving is sometimes a neccessary component to RESTORE a healthy democracy. I am passionate about America and Liberty and Justice for everyone. This is our Country. They want to DESTROY OUR RIGHTS and they are making a SHAM and a LAUGHING STOCK of OUR Democracy and our country. They are trying to shove false ideology down our throats by making LIES acceptable in the place of TRUTH. TRUTH and JUSTICE IS THE AMERICAN WAY.. It will not work any other way. God Bless America.
I agree with you in the sense that it is important to draw attention to the situation. I think that the media attention creates a political pressure that results in attorney general investigations. It also makes homeowners aware of their rights, which leads them to hire lawyers to defend them which is also a good thing.
However, the attention alone does not accomplish the goal of bringing criminals to justice. Ultimately the banks do not care, and the only way to achieve justice is through criminal or civil judicial proceedings.
I agree with you that the lenders should have to prove their case. I can only speak to Florida, however here in Florida, the lenders are proving their cases in the eyes of our judges. That’s a fact that you and I may not like, but it’s a fact nonetheless. One thing I learned a long time ago is that it does not matter what you or I believe to be the law, ultimately all that matters is what a judge believes to be the law. The dirty little secret that you don’t hear about is that these foreclosure cases do go to trial, the plaintiffs do produce the note, and the borrowers do lose even when represented by counsel. There is one particular defense firm in Florida that is very popular and has lost dozens of cases at trial. It happens every day. There’s one county here in Florida where the chief judge actually suspended the rules of civil procedure to help clear the court’s foreclosure docket. So, it takes me back to my original proposition, that justice is very hard to achieve on a case by case basis. Excellent defense arguments are falling on the deaf ears of judges. Justice isn’t going to happen through foreclosure defense, it’s only going to happen through an offensive judicial approach, whether in our criminal or civil courts.
And the bottom line is that you may be willing to live with the uncertainty of a foreclosure judgment hanging over your head and being forced out of your home by a sheriff, however many people are not and just want the security of knowing they can keep their home. It’s their right to choose that solution if it’s offered. As I said before, in most cases nothing precludes those people from seeking damages or being a member of a class action to seek redress for the fraud.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
http://www.Facebook.com/MediatorKen
@Mediator Ken: I agree with the fact that the judges are corrupt, the lawyers are corrupt,and they are all in cahoots with the UN..The banks were the perps but are also the scapegoats here. The banks know they don’t have the legal standing to take these houses from the people but are being forced to at least try and steal it and the orders are coming from a hidden player we do not see who is behind the scenes. These well hidden players are the vatican assassins. The whole damned country is a giant Ponzi Scheme business model built on fraud and corruption. I know people are being robbed of their homes everyday. What else can we expect from so much rampant corruption? The fraudclosures need to stop. FRAUDCLOSUREGATE is the direct result of rampant mortgage fraud and it was intended to do permanent harm to us and our country by foreigners posing as American Institutions, they are not. These are OUR homes.
@ I Vent
We wouldn’t have enough guns. Look at Lybia. The revolutionists were beaten very quickly. Make no mistake, by the people will eventually take place when we can no longer afford to purchase the basic necessities, but I retain hope that if we can hit them where it counts, monetary loss, that’s the only thing they comprehend. They know nothing. They care about nothing …except for one thing…we all know what that is folks.
As far as us having enough guns and bullets, I think when push comes to shove, they are more afraid of us, The American people can be some really crazy mo f’os when provoked .Look what the radicals in the 60s and 70’s accompIished. Libya has always been a tyrannical dictatorship that opressed its people, we have to stop it before AMERICA goes anywhere near there. I think even the cops are starting to realize they got screwed.WE ALL GOT SCREWED. Look what happened in Egypt, the army took the side of the people. I think RT news spoke about the tipping point for many people that starts revolutions is the inability for the people to feed themselves. That was one of the tipping points in Egypt though the man who set himself on fire to protest the tyranny of his own Government was what pushed the last button. I do not think that anyone will be willing to tolerate being forced by a monarchy to live in a tyrannical dictatorship, that is also a KLEPTOCRACY THAT ROBS FROM ITS OWN PEOPLE. The people are going to have to start THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX because if we ACT LIKE COWARDS, they WILL — USE THAT TO THEIR FULL ADVANTAGE. THEY REALLY HATE THAT. THEY HATE OUR SCREAMING AND RANTING TOO. I hear today that Obama is seriously considering lifting the moratoriuim on offshore drilling. Why?All of the screaming and bitching by the people and the threats to boycott. WE WANT A MORATORIUM ON ALL FRAUDCLOSURES. WE WANT THE STOLEN HOMES GIVEN BACK TO THE PEOPLE. THIS IS AMERICA. WE WILL NOT ALLOW ANYONE, ESPECIALLY A FOREIGNER TO PUT US UNDER. WE REF– USE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE CRIMINALS WHO ROBBED US. THESE ARE OUR HOMES AND WE GOT ROBBED. GOD BLESS AMERICA.
I find this to be both a highly intelligent analysis and a completely flawed analysis at the same time.
The analysis of principal reduction is quite impressive and interesting, digging past easy assumptions to suggest a more thought out review of the concept.
However, the authors makes the assumption that the proper goal is to reduce foreclosures when it should actually be to keep people in their homes. Characterizing a struggling homeowner’s loss of their home through a ‘profitable’ sale because they have substantial equity is just plain stupid. A typical homeowner who has equity at this time is likely an older homeowner, who has paid into their mortgage for years, but now suffered a hardship such as loss of job, severe illness, death of an income provider. And of course if they have lost their job, being older puts them at a significant disadvantage finding new employment. Their home’s value has suffered greatly in this fraud-induced housing crisis, but not enough to put them underwater. Since our government’s modification programs expressly prohibit modification for homeowners with substantial equity the homeowner has to either tap into retirement funds to keep the home, or sell their home… yes, at a profit from their purchase price years earlier but at a significant loss from it’s recent value. These older, arguably most deserving homeowners, are forced out of their homes, disrupting their lives, causing severe stress, etc. And the premise presented here is that this is a GOOD thing! Good for the mortgage INVESTOR, yes, but not for the homeowner, and not for the country.
It should also be noted that the Home Owners Loan Corporation of the 1930’s got it right, directly providing new, current-rate, longer-term, mortgages to millions of homeowners, and, as would be expected, those with equity were the least likely to re-default.
To make matters far worse, the government and banks pre-qualification formulas never ask about equity, so these homeowners are lured into trial mods tanking their credit, adding all sorts of penalties and fees, and dual-pathing them to foreclosure, when in fact, it is already predetermined that they will be rejected for a permanent modification. Is this good too?
l. Foreclosures are and continue to be at the forefront of the housing market collapse regardless of the hows and whys, it is fact. It affects each and every homeowner, irregardless of equity or lack thereof.
2. There will always be people of all ages that fall on hard times…sadly, however, it is a fact.
3. There will always be those that fall on hard times. There is no secure age group, that I am aware of, that are exempt from bad things happening. It is a fact.
4. This country should be strong enough and monetarily secure enough to help those who truly are deserving of help on a temporary basis. Clean up the fraud and abuse but give help to Americans who fall on hard times. No excuse for a country like the USA to be unable to do this. It is fact.
5. Unless I misunderstood you, I don’t believe that anyone participating on this blog wants to see an older citizen have his/her home taken out from under them. The fraudsters have even used reverse mortgages to stick it to those who have worked their entire lives and been productive tax paying citizens to squeeze and swindle every penny they can get from this group. Sadly, it is fact.
6. Modifications. Are you kidding me!!! It was a “collect a few extra bucks as fast as you can” before we foreclose on these “deadbeats”. I’ve played that game…been down that road. There was not one ounce of sincerety in helping people stay in their homes. That was just a nice cozy bedtime fairy tale of which the government was totally cognizant of. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.
7. I’m not sure you have thought this all the way through. You are more focused, I’m afraid, on some homeowers getting a break and others are not because they have funds to “tap” in to. It’s the “it’s not fair” syndrome. It will never be 100% fair to every person. There does not exist 100% fairness in life. The point is the country is in an economic freefall. That is very bad for all of us that are not wealthy and will never want for anything. Capitalism is a good thing..Communism is not. Profits and Job Growth are good things..Greed, Greed and More Greed..is not. A government and banking industry that steals from it’s citizens..is not a good thing. Whenever the scales become completely unbalanced good things do not happen. I think that a few years ago when this crisis began to grow, giving any homeowner the chance to refinance at a very low rate would have slowed this freefall down as well as added a jolt to a lagging economy. Then we could have worked on long term solutions. Unfortunately for all of us, our banking system sized this up as pure financial opportunity fully backed by our United States Government. This is fact.
Do not misunderstand what I mean by help. I do not want help from the U.S. GOVERNMENT. I just expect that in America our laws and rights should be upheld by our judges. Our justice sysem is supposed to PROTECT THE INNOCENT from THE CRIMINALS. IT IS NOT..We are expected to follow the rule of the law and so are the JUDGES. If laws are clearly broken and there is clear evidence of FRAUD, such as the ORIGINATION FRAUD, then We The Innocent expect to be PROTECTED and JUSTICE to prevail. America is the WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and maybe also the most CORRUPT. . RAMPANT CORRUPTION is the problem, IN A NUTSHELL. We The People have been vicimized by an unseen force hiding within our own country posing as American Institutions and this system has been almost completely corrupted. All we ask is that the rule of law and our rights be upheld. If this cannot be accomplished in the lower courts, then the higher courts are going to have to step in and rule on FRAUDCLOSURE FRAUD TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE.. All the people really want is protection from these criminals who have robbed all of us. People falling on hard times has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. WE WERE ALL INTENTIONALLY SET UP TO FAIL. Why did the elderly do reverse mortgages? They NEEDED MONEY. Why did people refinance their homes for the equity? They NEEDED MONEY. PEOPLE WERE FAILING AND DID NOT EVEN REALIZE IT. THIS IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW TO MILLIONS OF UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE. THEY ARE ROBBING PETER TO PAY PAUL, THEY CANNOT GET AHEAD OF THE 8 BALL AND THEY CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHY. THIS IS INTENTIONAL STRATEGIC NEITZSHE STYLE CLASS WARFARE AND NO ONE IS SAFE. PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THEY ARE ONLY ONE JOB LOSS AWAY FROM ALL OF US. THEY ARE NOT THROUGH WITH US. THEY ARE HELL BENT ON BANKRUPTING AMERICA. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ANYTHING BUT A MANUFACTURED FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT WAS MEANT TO DESTROY AMERICA.
@ Kathryn funny you mention “the not fair syndrome”. before they go there hear my story and you can email the powers that be and maybe they will let that go….. i live in Florida since i am 14yrs old. went to high school and graduated from a Miami school in 1981 so i am no spring chicken. we had to take economics and government in 12th grade. has not changed in 30 years my son his graduating HS exactly 30 years after me . what i learned in economics is probably what has caused my financial ruin today. we learned about starter homes and building equity. buying a larger home when financially stable. we learned about the mortgage interest deduction and that we should own homes instead of renting so we can itemize deductions. the government of USA made it so we needed to own our home or throw our hard earn money in the trash (no tax deductions)
I brought this knowledge into my marriage and in 1991 1 1/2 yrs after being married we bought a small 900sq ft home. hence the starter home. when i had my 2nd child i didn’t feel financially secure to move yet. when my 3rd child was born we had some job losses and illnesses. 5 yrs later 2004 we decided it was time. but what would know would happen 5 months after closing my new home my husband loses his job, taxes are over 7k we have to sell and move. my point Florida has a tax deferent called “:save our homes” taxes go up only 3% a year as long as you are in a homestead property. i paid 1500k/yr property taxes. only went up 300 bucks in 13 yrs. i did not know about this tax deffernment. it was not in existence yet in 1981 it started in 1996, guess what i was busy working full time as an RN night shift and raising my children. you tell me one woman who has time at that part of her life to read the newspaper or envelope inserts . did not know about save our homes the real estate agents wanted to make a buck. they new i was living in a big tax shelter. still no one told. me. so i moved and got hit with that 7k tax bill 1yr later. moral of my story charlie christ push for making save our homes tax shelter portable. but this occurred after i move.d. ok how do you think made me feel. did he once think about the people that already moved. whom now cant afford there homes because Florida has a yr deferment on tax assessing. so they didn’t use the 700 extra dollars/month to approved my mortgage. so please when bernanke and his Hench men speak of it being not fair for the people who can afford to pay and the people whom lost there homes already think of what Florida did in 2005. making save our homes portable and no one at all cared about the people whom spent years in there homes, and had already moved. thank you for reading we need share stories like this so we have a strong knowledge base and can write our elected officials with suggestions. not being fair that i lost my job, was underemployed because of bp spill. unable to find another job until now thats not fair. but helping Americans to keep there homes at any cost is fair and ethical.
@Losing my home in florida: That was soo brilliant the way that you thought “outside of the box” about how they NO DOUBT, dumbed us down for this Ponzi Scheme when we were in high school. My 22 year old son and I were talking about this very same thing at the kitchen table yesterday! He said that they probably intentionally dumbed us down when we were in school to fall for all of this fraud. We were if nothing else way,way too trusting. I don’t think we were ever taught the right way to verify a contract or that we should verify anything at all that we sign our name to in public High School.. Alot of us now are really starting to connect the dots and we are thinking way outside of the box now. This is great. THEY REALLY DID NOT TEACH US ANYTHING OF REAL VALUE THAT WE COULD — USE IN THE REAL WORLD IN PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL. I BELIEVE LIKE YOU, THAT WAS INTENTIONAL. The public school system is a failure to us,and for a time, a success to the criminals and the treasonists. I have found that through the begining process of trying to seek and find truth, I would get a pain above my left eye. Other people who are going through this had the same pain in the same place. I think maybe we are tapping into a part of our brains that we were not taught to use or have not used in a very long time. It is all super freaky the way this whole monstrosity played out. It was truly DIABOLICAL from it’s inception.. All we really want is fairness. I think that is all we ever really wanted. We did nothing wrong. We all got screwed and it was intentional and that is just wrong.
wE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT SAFE IN A LAND THAT IS COMPLETELY CORRUPTED. OUR OWN PRESIDENT IS A HOSTAGE. WE NEED A U.S. SUPREME COURT RULING TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE FROM CORRUPTED LAWYERS AND JUDGES WHO ARE COMMITTING TREASON AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ITS PEOPLE BY ALLOWING THE U.N. TO STEAL OUR HOMES. THEY ARE COMPLETELY IGNORING OUR LAWS, OUR U.S. CONSTITUTION AND OUR BILL OF RIGHT AND FORCING BANKS TO GIVE THE PEOPLE FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED LOAN MODS OR STEALING OUR HOMES THEY CAN NOT PROVE THEY HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO TAKE. WE MUST MARCH AS ONE TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WITH DEEDS AND ORIGINAL NOTES IN OUR HANDS AND DEMAND JUSTICE AND PROTECTION FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED AND KICKED TO THE CURB BY TREASONISTS INSIDE OF OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, THEY ARE THE FED, THE U.S. TREASURY AND WALL STREET, THE NYSE ALONG WITH THE FOREIGN OWNED MUTINATIONAL BANKS AND MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS WHO ARE DISGUISED AS AMERICAN OWNED INSTITUTIONS, THEY ARE NOT. THEY ARE VATICAN ASSASSINS. HIRED HIT MEN WHO ARE AMERICAN TREASONISTS. THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE FOREIGN IMPOSTERS POSING AS AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS, THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS, THEY ARE A SHAM AND A FRAUD…
amen
well said
Do we honestly have any “American” Institutions left? Greed, Corruption and Selfishness. It is hard to imagine that not that terribly long ago, big deals were literally sealed by a handshake, each usually upholding their end of the deal. We may be more technically evolved, have more things, but we are not happier or nicer as a people.
Your comment about deals that used to be made and upheld based on a handshake is really an irony for my case.
Remember the ‘AG Mods’ that Jerry Brown was crowing so loudly about back in 2009-2010 where he had CountryWide/Bank of America signed to a stipulated agreement where they would offer ‘streamlined processing’ mods as long as he would drop the case where CountryWide was being charged with false advertising of it’s loan products?
Well, the CW/BofA personnel later claimed that ‘all of those mods CANCELED’. The correct wording is that they BREACHED them.
These were PERMANENT mods, just like the newest go-round that is now also to be offered with the settlement with the three top henchmen in CW.
Before I go further, take a look at your own Deed of Trust and your NOTE. You will see that there were only places for the borrower’s signature(s) and the witnesses. There were NO places for the pretender-lender to sign on those documents that they had offered up to you at closing.
Now the permanent mod does have a PLACE for them to sign but I can point to at least one judge who viewed a signed by the borrower and notarized mod of this ilk and viewed it to be a valid contract REGARDLESS of the lack of signature by the pretender-lender.
The pretender-lender pursued the argument that this should REQUIRE a signature by them to be valid. THEY NEVER SIGNED ANY OF THEM, nor do they sign the non-AG mod contracts.
If you get a permanent mod from BofA, you are ALWAYS going to be at risk of them canceling the thing even with payments accepted.
There is no difference in the mods being drawn up by CW/BofA and the original papers for the loan.
IF it really requires their signature, then we do no have valid mortgage contracts to begin with.
Part of their filings in fact seemed to try to say they had to sign the mod just like it was on the original loan documents. Well, there is NOT even a spot for their signature!
So, there you have it, not only is it not good enough to have a handshake deal anymore, but even one that meets the same criteria as the original loan documents is not good enough for them to uphold.
BofA is just purely DISGUSTING!
@Katheryn, Now in America, land that we love, we are being PERSECUTED AND ROBBED OF OUR HOMES by the very criminals who INTENTIONALLY caused this financial crisis. No one is safe, There is no one left that the people can TRUST. Trust but Verify has no protection for the people. When our own Government ALLOWS RAMPANT FRAUD TO GO UNPUNISHED and TURNS A BLIND EYE TO IT. WE THE PEOPLE KNOW LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN WITH IMPUNITY, yet these same CRIMINALS are being allowed with the BLESSINGS OF OUR JUDGES TO CONTINUE THE FRAUDCLOSURES or force FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED LOAN MODS ON US..the attorneys and the judges use the excuse that THIS IS WHAT THEY DID, STUPID!” SORRY WE ARE NOT STUPID. WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT LAWS WERE BROKEN AND WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF ENOUGH!! Even the truth is being covered up and it is becoming increasingly difficult or nearly impossible for the American people to decipher the truth from the lies. That was also done INTENTIONALLY. They want us to feel helpless and defenseless. When the people, if they can even AFFORD LEGAL COUNSEL, cannot even TRUST the ATTORNEYS or THE JUDGES whose job it is TO PROTECT US FROM THE CRIMINALS THEN AMERICA IS NO LONGER FREE. AMERICA IS THEN A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP BEING RUN AND CONTROLLED BY THE CRIMINALS. THAT WILL CA– USE ANARCHY, THEY ARE FORCING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. THEN WHAT WE HAVE IS THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE IN AMERICA. ALL THE PEOPLE WILL HAVE LEFT TO PROTECT WHAT IS THEIRS IS GUNS AND BULLETS. IS THIS REALLY WHAT THEY WANT? NO ONE IS SAFE ANYWAY, SO WHAT THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO LOSE WHEN THERE IS NO ONE PROTECTING OUR RIGHTS? The FRAUDCLOSURES MUST STOP, RETURN THE STOLEN HO– USES BACK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE WERE ROBBED WITH IMPUNITY AND WE THE PEOPLE KNOW THIS. THIS IS AMERICA, NOT HITLERS GERMANY.
@Hell no no more bailouts. That is exactly right, there is NO PROOF of a debt being owed because THERE NEVER WAS A DEBT OWED BECA– USE of the ORIGINATION FRAUD. IT WAS INTENTIONAL, THE BANKS NEEDED COLLATERAL FOR THEIR WALL STREET PONZI SCHEME. Our mortgages were fraudulently induced AFTER THAT. NO ACTUAL LOAN TRANSACTION EVER OCCURED.. We would not have the DEEDS, THE TITLE TO THE HO– USE, IF THERE WAS A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY. My county recorder’s office told me in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, MY HO– USE IS PAID FOR. I CAN LIVE IN IT, SELL IT, OR I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT WITH IT. I EVEN HAVE THE ORIGINAL NOTE AND MORTGAGE, IT WAS NEVER SIGNED. THE PROOF OF THE ORIGINATION FRAUD. THEY ROBBED ME, THEY ROBBED ALL OF US. THEY COLLECTED 18 YEARS OF FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED MORTGAGE PAYMENTS FROM ME and they HID THE ORIGINATION FRAUD BY GIVING ME A NEW PIN# AND NOT TELLING ME. THIS IS WHAT THEY DID AND THEY BROKE THE LAW, WITH IMPUNITY. Now the BANKS ARE BEING FORCED BY THE SAME CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE TO STEAL OUR HOMES OR FRAUDENTLY INDUCE A LOAN MOD? THE BANKSTERS KNOW OUR HOMES ARE PAID FOR AND IF THEY GIVE US A LOAN MOD THEY ARE COMMITTING MORE FRAUD. THE VATICAN ASSASSINS ARE TRYING TO FORCE THE BANKS TO COMMIT MORE FRAUD. F— THEM. THEY ARE NAZI’S THE FOURTH REICH HAS COME TO ROOST HERE IN AMERICA AND ARE WEARING AN AMERICAN DISGUISE. THEY ARE DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS LAWYERS, JUDGES, CONGRESS,THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT IMPOSTERS AND TREASONISTS OF AMERICA. MAKE NO MISTAKE, THEY ARE FOREIGNERS WHO HATE AMERICA AND THEY ARE UP TO NO GOOD. THEY ARE OUT TO CONQUER AND DESTROY AMERICA,
Medaitor Ken, you are evidently mis informed that anyone here would want to give any of these people a second chance to do anything.We have been lied to time and again.When they had thier chance they blew it off and trivilized what we were going through.When we asked for help they denied us and found ways to do thier worst to us and our families.Maybe you’ve lost your way and are on the wrong website?
Pamela, I didn’t say the principal reductions were forced on anybody. I’m a lawyer so I understand your position and preference to litigate these issues,and I agree with that posture, however, you shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that not everyone wants the same thing. There are a great many homeowners who would love the security of resolving their case, with a modified loan that includes a principal write-down and terms that make sense. I’m good friends with a lot of very good foreclosure defense lawyers who would tell you that they would love to see principal reductions offered more often because that’s what their clients want, and as lawyers, our job is to fight to achieve what our clients want.
IMO, the issues about which we are all so outraged are best prosecuted through class action suits, and/or at the federal level, rather than on a case by case basis in state courts. Circuit court judges, at least here in Florida, are simply not very sympathetic to even the best defense arguments, which makes justice in most of these cases very hard to achieve, and when the bank eventually takes the home back, it’s the homeowner, who once again, ends up suffering.
http://www.PinellasMediation.com
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@Mediator Ken: You call that liberty and justice for all? I call that RAMPANT CORRUPTION. The attorneys we hire and the Judges we “elect” are supposed to be protecting us from criminals. Giving the people a write down on a loan the bank CANNOT VERIFY ever existed is MORE FRAUD. Now maybe the judges who are going along with the FRAUDSTERS NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM THE BENCH BY THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED THEM TO DELIVER JUSTICE. THEY JUDGES ARE CLEARLY NOT DOING THEIR JOB, SIR. THAT IS A TRAVESTY.
They own the land, but our deeds CLEARLY PROVE that WE THE PEOPLE OWN THE HOME. If they try to FORCE us to pay another fraudulently induced mortgage for a home that is paid for or steal our homes by stealing our land from under us. Get those bulldozers ready people. They can have their useless land, the people will make sure that they CANNOT STEAL OUR HOMES. THESE ARE OUR HOMES, NOT THEIRS. WE PAY THE HYPER-INFLATED PROPERTY TAXES, THAT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH..WE THE PEOPLE WERE ROBBED OF ENOUGH. THIS IS OUR COUNTRY.
as 2am becomes 3am i am still awake. i am stressed and consumed by losing my home. i have been DUAL TRACKED by wells fargo. yes iwas told to stop paying my mortgage because they could not help until we were 3months in default. someone hacked into t my point of contact, homepreservaion specialist and moved my modification out of her watch. got a letter in jan to send new financials by feb 14th i sent it feb 3rd. my tracking number is safe, on feb 16 they denied me a hamp loan becuase i failed to submit paper work. feb 21 wells fargo puts me into foreclsourre, now todau march 12th they wanted me to reapply for hamp, my paper work by moricle showed up. why do they just use it right?? no they want me to reapply. then what approve me pay my mod and then foreclose on me. so i am paying my loan mod and a lawyer to defend my foreclsoure. i guess i am getting close to the end here. they are dogs.. now i what do i do. waht is this dusl tracking about. i am so scared
Try to not let the fear get a grip on you. That is what they want. Have you gone through your original loan docs yet? You might be surprised at what you might find. I am sure when push comes to shove you have quite a bit of incriminating evidence that you can use against them. I think it may be time FOR ALL OF US to start looking closer at the criminal aspect of this. I am sure there are many criminal attorneys who might be willing to take your case. Start looking for the fraud in your documents. You have time. If you were just denied the loan mod then it will be a while yet before they are going to file a foreclosure complaint. They did not give you a loan mod because they couldn’t. They would have been committing more fraud by fraudulently inducing a mortgage debt that never existed. Now think about that. The mortgage loan never existed. That happened at the Origination of your loan. Go through your documents ASAP. We cannot act like cowards and give up. They do not want to fight us, they want to make you give up. NEVER GIVE UP. Think of it as your patriotic duty as an American citizen to NEVER give up. You already have all of the ammo you need, you just have to find it for yourself. Come on, YOU CAN DO THIS..
i have looked at my documents. these documents are so bad they were suppose to be dead a burried for life not to be looked at again. the mortgage broker lied on my loan application she mistate dmy income. i can get my paycheck subs from back them to prove it. it is by at least 700 dollars. that could have broke the loan and she wante dher commission. the application was not given to me until after i signed the closing documents. the handed me a package when i left. my mortgage application was among them including all my “unsigned” documnets that now they are free to forge. the only thing the application states is telephone interiew. it was not signed by me. they want us to fear this. like i did somethin wrong. like i over stated my income to her. to buy my old home in 2004 we had a combined income of 5900. this home i am being foreclosed on she has me solo at 4900k. my husband was not working so he is on the mortgage not the note. that is 1k differnce in 2 years. so my husband only made 1k. i dont think so. i sent my paycheck stubs. she was not suppose to use over time hours and i also explaned to her i only work 36hrs that is full time for nurses. so i was approc=ve fraudulently coulnt afford the house the day i signed for it so sad because there were so many less expensive homes in hernando county but we were putting 20% down. we did not deserve this. it waasnt like I HAD TO HAVE THIS HO– USE. we could bought any house. i also have a straw buyer. home on market for 225k sold 51 says later for 245. then the appraiser increased that price bu 19k. such a scam all of it. what do you know about the separation of the note and mortgage when is that found out?? ps they want us to be scared because we are thinking that was my loan application but if its not given to you until you walk out the door?
Do the people really want to call out Washington? Call and e-mail Congress and the White House and tell them WE THE PEOPLE WANT OUT OF UNITED NATIONS OR WE WILL NO LONGER PARTICIPATE OR COOPERATE WITH THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. WE WILL EACH PERSONALLY SECEDE FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. WE WILL NOT VOTE, WE WILL NOT PAY OUR TAXES,WE WILL NOT PAY THE MORTGAGE, WE WILL BOYCOTT FOREIGN OIL AND FOREIGN TRADE. WE WILL BUY NO FOREIGN IMPORTS. WE WILL DEFEND OUR PROPERTY WITH GUNS AND BULLETS, WE WILL WALK OUT ON OUR SHITTY LOW WAGE PART TIME JOBS, WE WILL TAKE OUR MONEY OUT OF THE BIG BANKS AND WE WILL PUT NO MONEY IN THE BANKS, WE WILL CASH IN ALL OF OUR INVESTMENTS AND WALK AWAY WITH WHAT WE HAVE LEFT, WE WILL ASSUME NO NEW DEBT, WE WILL ALL MARCH IN UNITY IN THE STREETS OF ALL OF THE MAJOR CITIES AND CAPITAL CITIES IN PROTEST OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER, WE WILL IMPOSE AUSTERITY MEASURES ON THEM. WE NEED TO DO THIS AS ONE NATION UNDER GOD IN ORDER TO RESTORE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. WE WANT OUT NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY BACK FROM THE TYRANTS WHO STOLE IT. We The People must let Washington know will allow NO foreign nation to put us under.
Similarly, today the Fed made the similarly ludicrous statement that there were “no wrongful foreclosures” based on a review of a mere 500 loan files. Given that there are 14 major servicers, that means it looked at 36 files on average per servicer.
JP Morgan appears to have company in the “grinding up servicemen for fun and profit” school of banking. And while the Administration has bent over backwards to protect servicers by disputing any suggestion that they’ve made unwarranted foreclosures, they’ve been fast to saddle up the Department of Justice to investigate over the very same issue,20 probably impermissible foreclosures at Saxon, a servicer owned by Morgan Stanley, because it involved active duty personnel.
This two-tier approach is intriguing: aggressive pursuit of abuses when members of the armed forces are the victims, flat-out denials for the rest of us. Dave Dayen thinks it’s politics, but I wonder if something deeper is at work. The Pentagon has been aggressive in blocking other forms of exploitation of soldiers, such as locating payday lenders near military bases (the Pentagon sought and won interest rate ceiling.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/03/administration-acts-on-mortgage-fraud-against-military-denies-it-exists-anywhere-else.html
Letting No Disaster Go To Waste, SEC Prepares To Let Lehman Executives Walk For Repo 105 Fraud
The WSJ reports: “In recent months, Securities and Exchange Commission officials have grown increasingly doubtful they can prove that Lehman violated U.S. laws by using an accounting maneuver to move as much as $50 billion in assets off its balance sheet, which made it appear that the securities firm had reduced its debt levels….After zeroing in last summer on the battered real-estate portfolio and an accounting move known as Repo 105, SEC officials have grown more worried they could lose a court battle if they bring civil charges that allege Lehman investors were duped by company executives. The key stumbling block: The accounting move, while controversial, isn’t necessarily illegal.” Oh no, illegal it is. The problem is that should the SEC actually pursue it and win, that act would open up the floodgates for hundreds of lawsuits against everyone from Bank of America and Citi, which have also disclosed they used comparable tactics to misrepresent the true status of their books, to shady accounts like Ernst & Young, all the way to FASB at the very top of the corruption pyramid. And with hundreds of millions if not billions in legal fees about to be paid out if the fraudclosure back door settlement fails, the SEC simply can not allow the pursuit of justice to threaten the viability of America’s only national interest: that of its criminal banking syndicate.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/letting-no-disaster-go-waste-sec-prepares-let-lehman-executives-walk-repo-105-fraud
WOW, Looks like high time for the people to secede from the tyrants. They are hell bent on putting us under. We The People must stop participating in this dictatorship.
It is quite simple. The criminal banking syndicate is our justice system. It is quite simple. There is no longer a justice system for the people. It is quite simple. White Collar Crime Prevails 🙁
Very sad!
The logic of this article is faulty. Suffice it to say that missing a couple of months of mortgage payments cannot be compared to the criteria generally required to qualify for a principal reduction. I’ve seen six principal reductions in foreclosure mediations, and the lenders actually do their due diligence to ensure that it’s fiscally prudent to reduce the principal of that particular loan. Trust me, the lenders’ motives in reducing principal are not altruistic. A wide spread principal reduction program would also include the necessary screening to ensure that the solution made sense for both the lender and the borrower…not too mention society as a whole. Any such program should not be left up to the lender’s discretion, but rather administered by the federal courts, or a specific judicial tribunal setup to deal with this crisis. It should be a sort of foreclosure only bankruptcy chapter.
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@Mediator Ken: Sorry, don’t know what bank or Government agency put you up to this but, the people do not want a loan write down or a loan modification. We would rather sue the snot out of them, thank you very much. The people you must understand just want to stick it in their asses now. THE WINDOW OF NEGOTIATION IS NOW CLOSED. They blew it when they stole the tax-payer funded bail-out money that they were supposed to use to give struggling homeowner’s a loan mod. We The People are not just being altruistic when we say that the Government and the Banks can stick a principal reduction right up their lying asses or we will go ahead and find a way to do that for them. The banks and the Government, CONgress esp. you see, lost the TRUST of the people AND THEY NO LONGER QUALIFY AS LEGITAMITE BUSINESSES. THEY ONLY NOW QUALIFY AS SHAMS, LIARS AND FRAUDS. WE THE PEOPLE NO LONGER WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. THEY ARE NOW STARING DOWN THE BARREL OF A LOADED GUN THAT IS BEING HELD BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. We The People are now very angry and we are feeling extremely irrational. GETTING INTENTIONALLY SET UP TO FAIL, ROBBED, LIED TO , IGNORED AND DECEIVED DOES THAT TO A PERSON. No fancy words are neccesary, a simple four letter word will do just fine, F— THEM.
Legal Thievery
@Mediator Ken; REALLY? YOU HAVE SEEN JUDGES FORCE PRINCIPAL REDUCTIONS DOWN THE THROATS OF THE BANKS AND FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED LOAN MODS DOWN THE THROATS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AT GUN POINT IN FORECLOSURE MEDIATIONS? THIS IS NO LONGER ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS. THIS IS ABOUT JUSTICE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THE PRETENDER LENDERS ARE NOT OWED ANY MONEY FROM ANY HOMEOWNER. THEY ARE NO MORE THAN A BILL COLLECTOR TRYING TO HIDE THE ORIGINATION FRAUD AND PROTECT FANNIE MAE FROM PROSECUTION. FANNIE MAE SHOULD BE IN THAT COURT ROOM WITH SOME REAL DOCUMENTATION PROVING WHHO IS OWED MONEY BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE IT BECA– USE THEY DEFRAUDED TRILLIONS FROM UNSUSPECTING INVESTORS AND HOMEOWNERS. YOU CAN ALL TAKE A HIKE. WE THEH PEOPLE WILL NOT BE HAD AGAIN. THERE IS REAL, CRIMINAL LIABILTY HERE AND THE PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH. WE GOING TO SUE THE PANTS OFF OF ALL OF THEM.
PRINCIPAL REDUCTION OF WHAT EXACTLY? The mortgages were FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED after the ORIGINATION FRAUD. THE MORTGAGES LOANS NEVER, EVER EXISTED. OTHERWISE, THEY WOULD HAVE THE ORIGINAL NOTES AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE DEED. I agree with the Stupendous Man-Defender of Liberty-Foe of Tyranny. This is yet more B.S. from some more B.S.ers who are trying to save their asses. TOO LATE.
What the authors of this article demonstrate is that where there is no will,. there is no way. Lack of creativity and flexibility assure that doing nothing remains the best option. The authors correctly demonstrate that principal reduction can only work if all mortgages are treated the same. No reward is to be provided which favors those who default over those who continue to pay the mortgage. The authors then posit a straw man example and knock it down.
Let’s change a couple of numbers in the example. Suppose that the house as funded at $150,000. but is now worth a $100,000. Reduce the mortgage by $50,00. for both borrowers. Then add a $5,000. negative equity to the defaulter’s mortgage but structure payout off at $95.000. Offer the same to the non-defaulting mortgagor. In each case, the creditor winds up collecting $200,000., either $150,00=$50,000. or $100,000.=$100,000.
If I were so disposed, the situation is ripe for a new political movement for a mortgage payment boycott where everyone joins together and stops paying the mortgage. Until the government forces a one third write-down of all single family residential ownerships, a mortgage payments become embargoed.Such a boycott would compel mortgage reform and a restructuring of payments whereby Wall Street would be forced to help pay for the the fallout from the financial mess Wall Street has created. By comparison, the Tea Party Movement would be seen as small minded, misguided and ineffectual.
When the tea party was formed those people were well intentioned but not well informed so they were confused about what they were fighting for. . That was done intentionally and devicively buy the Republican party. They used those people as tools. People have become alot smarter since then and are now starting to see the big picture. The people behind this INTENTIONAL destruction of America, the AMERICAN people are NOW coming to find out are TRULY DIABOLICAL.. So the people will in turn, become more diabolical. WE WILL FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE, WE ARE AMERICANS.
The longer “nothing” is done, the lower and lower the value of ALL homes fall and the more impoverished the middle class becomes. This is larger than just home values falling and empty houses sitting all over the place turning nice neighborhoods into slumhoods. Even forecloures and short sales are just sitting there. Most of the middle class thought that when they reached retirement age, they would sell their homes and scale down….that is gone. We will now have a very LARGE population of boomers who will be out looking for jobs and living at poverty level. The complexity of the whole fraudclosure have tenticles far reaching beyond houses. All I know is my passport is up-dated and if worse comes to worse..it’s adios. I think that an all in all out “refusal” to pay for anything other than our basic necessities, well planned and coordinated, might get some attention….but then again….maybe not.
After reading this article from the greatest minds of the Feds that took the courage to let us know how well they stand behind the banksters, didn’t surprise me a bit. Amazing how they analysed the whole theory of principal reduction to make us believe that it is not a good thing for anyone. They even brought Securitization in the picture. Outrageous! You people don’t know how Securitization is a Ponzi Scheme where everyone in will lose their money in the fony investments. The only one who gets out as a winner is the bank who sell the bonds falsified as triple AAA when in reality they are worth crap. I would love to see your faces when you guys are losing your homes to MERS and after the chain of title had been broken more than 10 times.
The only reason you guys speak so confortable is because you are behind the scene sitting pretty and looking in from the point of view as a Fed representing the banking cartel of the world. You never know what it means to go to bed under the cold weather under a bridge, do you boys? As a matter of fact, you never gone to bed hungry and your stomack rolls at 2:00 AM in the morning. How pathetic you guys are when you compare the negative home market value with cameras to avoid 300 lives a year? It is amazing what you guys know the value of a life. Even if a human being gets to be safe from million of dollars in cameras, better yet 300 lives per year. Are you guys kidding me? You must be used to be dealing with ignorant people when you do this analogy. Also to use the analogy of some people will default because some people get the principal reduction and some don’t. It is like saying some people get car insurance and some don’t. When we talk hipothetically and with assumptions, we will never get anything done for the fear that some will and some won’t.
So wath if some won’t. The main goal here is to stop this madness of foreclosures when you guys know very well by now, that millions of foreclosures had been done illegally by all the means as were necessary by the banks and all the army of Attorneys, Foreclosure Mills, and all the robo-signers.
Do you guys have any ethic, dignity, morals, or even any compassion for the human race? Perhaps you know somebody in your families that is losing their home in foreclosure and they are afraid that you find out.
Millions of people have so much pride in their homes that they don’t dare to let anyone know what they are going through on the fear that they will be labeled deadbeats. When in reality the deadbeats here are the banks for doing all the wrong and make people believe that all this mess is their fault.
I can not help but to guide you in the right direction and send you to learn a lesson by going to http://www.livinglies.wordpress.com
You will be getting a nice lesson about the truth and the reality behind property law. I know you speak and write so eloquent, but those are just words without substance. If you really want to get to the real truth, you need to do your due dilligence and learn on your own by researching the real truth and not what the Feds, the Government, the Banks, and every special interest wants you to believe.
After all, what are you going to take with you at the end? Hope you come to your consious and realize that there is more than meet the eyes on everything.
@Flex.Bernanke said it loud and clear on 60 minutes, HE WILL NOT LET THE BANKS FAIL. FACE IT PEOPLE, THE FOURTH REICH IS RUNNING THE SHOW HERE IN AMERICA. Remember what the Nazi’s said after the Holocaust? The people did the Holocaust to themselves because they were cowards. They blamed the victims and they walked away. They went right down the Vatican ratlines and hid out all over the world. Flex is right, we must get medevial about our assets and find out what the truth and reality behind property law is. The truth is out there.. They are counting on us not knowing the truth or not caring enough to find out what the truth is and so they can call us cowards because they want us to feel defenseless and give up. THEY DO NOT WANT US TO FIGHT BACK. DO NOT GIVE UP. If worse comes to worse there are guns and bullets.
………and bulldozers.
I keep seeing that flawed foreclosure paperwork where the chain of title is amiss can be ‘cured’ either by somehow ‘creating new paperwork that fixes the problem’ or doing a principal reduction. (Now you need to read that first option of creating new paperwork that fixes the problem as ‘create additional flawed paperwork’ since I’m speaking of documents that were never generated at the appropriate time and the PSA stipulated the time-frame required).
Without a proper chain of title, these entities have no proper right to do any modification, no ability to correctly offer a principal reduction AND no right to foreclose.
If they can not legitimately produce the proper chain of title, they have no standing to do anything with the mortgage.
To underscore the result of ignoring this problem, consider this: Courts are now seeing fraudulently-created assignments presented in foreclosure cases filed, apparently as an attempt to overcome the problem assignments. Courts are seeing two different assignment documents produced in two separate court actions regarding the same original loan. If chain of title problems are disregarded by the politicians in their quest for a band-aid fix, they have NOT fixed the housing market problem, only possibly ‘kicked part of the problem further down the road’ to when someone researches chain of title on a property.
This is the very reason that a proper chain of title that can be authenticated properly is necessary before presuming that underwater mortgages can be fixed thru any principal reduction or modification program.
@Hell No-no more bailouts: I think that MERS destroyed chain of title for the majority of pretender lenders, then there is the Origination fraud which in my case happened 19 years ago. I do not believe the pretender lenders can EVER FIX the chain of title problems in order to create a clear chain of title for themselves UNLESS THEY COMMIT MORE FRAUD. Now the homeowner on the other hand had the title conveyed to the homeowner. I think that means we are the only ones who can LEGALLY SELL THE HOME. I specifically remember my pretender lender PHH mortgage telling me that they want ME TO SELL MY HOME. Our signature is the only way to create a CLEAR CHAIN OF TITLE for the PRETENDER LENDER.. SORRY TO DISSAPOINT YOU, BUT I THINK I AM RIGHT ON THIS ONE.
I THINK THEY PRETENDER LENDERS ARE SCREWED.
@I vent: I agree with you but add that the failure to follow the PSA agreements which were a hidden part of the actual contract has added further flaws to the chain of title.
The direct attach on what MERS, which shows that MERS is trying to be two entities in one at the same time is only part of the MERS problems also.
Add to that picture the following: MERS was NEVER given any power to do any specific action on the part of the ‘lender’. Courts have already determined, in long-standing cases, that a NOMINEE (as MERS is denoted to be in the mortgage docs) has no specific powers and certainly no power to foreclose. MERS was not addressed in the Deed of Trust to have any specific powers designated by the LENDER. The only section of that document that states MERS can do any crap is in what the borrowers acknowledge. Well, even with that section in the document, courts have looked at what the LENDER specified in the Deed of Trust and have found the documents LACKED any such statement.
Also, a NOMINEE can not take on more powers than the original entity. HMMMM. Most of these original LENDERS were either fake corporations or they are now bankrupt. I have yet to see this argument directly addressed in a court case but I have seen articles where the law school professors are saying this is a flaw also.
I agree that one way the fraudsters are getting around the chain of title problem is with our signature but in some states, the action of the courts granting them the property also may suffice.
I agree that the corrupt justice system in our own country, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, can still find ways to “trick” people out of their homes and have done this as the vacant homes that blight our communities prove. The truth is now coming to light now though that the banks stole homes they had no legal right to and that is creating flawed title for the unsuspecting purchaser. Many banks do not even go through with the fraudclosures and simply walk away after shaming and scaring the homeowner out of their home. I think if the homes are abandoned for a certain period of time, the U.S.Government then owns the home because of Escheat. I believe Escheat trumps even a fee simple deed. So this allows the U.S. Government to retake the land from the hands of the U.N. because the U.N. holds all land in the U.S in FEE SIMPLE. (BECA– USE OF AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE, A PACT MADE MANY YEARS AGO WITH FOREIGNORS and TREASONISTS INSIDE OF OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.) .I think this is why our media was telling people to just walk away. Abandonment puts our land back into the hands of the U.S. Government. Everything is so very deceptive. Treason put our country in a sort of double jeopardy if you ask me. I think the people need a ruling from the HIGHEST COURT ON THE THE LAND, The U.S. Supreme Court . THE PEOPLE NEED PROTECTION FROM THE TREASONISTS WHO ARE HELL BENT ON STEALING OUR HOMES. There are tyrants using American people as treasonists (Judges) to steal our homes and that IS COMPLETELY UNAMERICAN. If our laws, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are only being used to PROTECT THE CRIMINALS than what we will soon have here in AMERICA IS ANARCHY. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DID NOTHING WRONG. WE CANNOT LET THE FOREIGNORS STEAL OUR HOMES, THAT WOULD BE TREASON BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. NO LOAN MODS EITHER, WE WILL NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS, THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO ROBBED US. THAT WOULD BE A CRIMINAL ACT BY US TO AID AND ABET THE CRIMINALS. WE NEED THE SUPREME COURT TO STEP IN TO PROTECT OUR LAND AND OUR HOMES FROM THESE TYRANTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY US AND WE NEED THAT ASAP.. Have any attorneys looked into taking this to the highest court in the land for a ruling? THERE IS DEFINITE INJUSTICE GOING ON IN AMERICA. WE THE PEOPLE NEED PROTECTION.
We cannot even TRUST attorneys to protect us. They too are corrupted. There is no rule of law anywhere in America to protect us or our homes. WE NEED LEGAL PROTECTION. THERE ARE TREASONIST OUT TO DESTOY US. WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN TO OUR GREAT NATION. WE HAVE BEEN SOLD UP THE RIVER BY TREASON. THIS HAS TO STOP. WE NEED TO MARCH TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WITH OUR DEEDS AND NOTES IN OUR HANDS. THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT THAT WE ARE NOW FORCED TO HIRE CORRUPT LEGAL COUNSEL AND GO BEFORE CORRUPT JUDGES TO TRY TO SAVE OUR HOMES FROM FOREIGN TYRANTS.. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY.
Spin from industry insiders.